These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

ASB vs SE
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
#1 - 2014-01-31 20:38:37 UTC
I am probably late to the game, but what can people say when comparing MASB vs MSE

Is MASB always a clear winner?

Another question: how possible is it to survive the 60 second reload time of MASB? Plate? DCU? SAAR?

Thank you
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2014-01-31 21:28:25 UTC
You will need to provide a lot more information before anyone can give you any reasoned response. The closest anyone could say would be that there is no direct way to compare them.


or TL:DR It depends.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#3 - 2014-02-01 00:38:09 UTC
ASB will always give more total EHP than an extender especially if you use navy boosters, but since it doesn't affect current EHP it's less useful when dealing with high alpha, it also takes manual control so that might complicate matters.
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
#4 - 2014-02-01 02:39:24 UTC
Froggy Storm wrote:
You will need to provide a lot more information before anyone can give you any reasoned response. The closest anyone could say would be that there is no direct way to compare them.


or TL:DR It depends.


Ok, let me try to give more information:

In a frigate fight (PVP), most of which will be under a minute, there is little chance for the MASB to reload it's 60 second cycle, so all i can count on is one set of cycles before reloading. Will the boost provided by MASB be better than a MSE

As Gregor pointed out, MASB will give more EHP than MSE, but what about the natural shield regen that comes with MSE?

Is there any situation, where i would rather fit an MSE on a frigate than an MASB
Nimrod vanHall
Van Mij Belastingvrij
#5 - 2014-02-01 03:15:38 UTC
Fit a shield extender when: you have friendly remote repairs, or when you take damage faster then ths ASB can repair it. When alpha is greater then shield buffer.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#6 - 2014-02-01 03:20:28 UTC
There are quite a few areas where a MSE is better or more desirable. If you have Burst or Bantam support you want the EHP so you can survive until reps arrive. If your opponents use artillery a lot you want EHP to survive their first shot or two to get under their guns.

The fitting requirements are also different. MSE use more PG. MASB are CPU hungry. Depending on your ship you may need more of one or the other. MSE makes your sig larger but it also provides faster shield recharge. MASB allows sig tanking better - but once you're out of charges the other guy better be dead! Lol
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#7 - 2014-02-01 09:45:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
hydraSlav wrote:
Froggy Storm wrote:
You will need to provide a lot more information before anyone can give you any reasoned response. The closest anyone could say would be that there is no direct way to compare them.


or TL:DR It depends.


Ok, let me try to give more information:

In a frigate fight (PVP), most of which will be under a minute, there is little chance for the MASB to reload it's 60 second cycle, so all i can count on is one set of cycles before reloading. Will the boost provided by MASB be better than a MSE

As Gregor pointed out, MASB will give more EHP than MSE, but what about the natural shield regen that comes with MSE?

Is there any situation, where i would rather fit an MSE on a frigate than an MASB




It's very easy to calculate:

- Fit a ship in EFT and use MSE, now check total EHP and defense number
- replace MSE and fit ASB, load ASB with smallest faction boosters (or don't if you don't plan on using faction)
- Check total capacity on the ASB, check charge size on the booster and calculate how many cycles before reloading
- multiply amount of ASB cycles with cycle time, now you have total ASB boosting time
- run ASB, check defense number. Now disable ASB and check defense number again, substract this figure from the first one, now you have EHP/s (if you want to be really anal add a fraction of the disabled defense number, like 25-40% or so, accounting for regen while boosting)
- multiply total boosting time with EHP/s, this is your overall EHP gain from your ASB without reload
- add the EHP gain you found to the current EHP number, now you have the total ship's EHP when using ASB
- compare this number to the initial MSE EHP plus ~40% of the MSE defense number multiplied by ASB total boosting time


you'd use an MSE on ships you expect could be (close to) alphad or you'd be WAY to busy with other things to have to bother with noticing shield amounts and activating ASB, like tacklers for instance.


So there's several ways of looking at it if you choose to use ASB:

- it gives more overall EHP and I'm ok with manually handling it
- I fitted a second ASB to cover the first's reload cycle
- if I have to reload I'm in trouble anyway
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#8 - 2014-02-01 11:21:12 UTC
On non bonused ships:

MSE II = 1050 *1.25 skill = 1312.5 shield points
Overheated MASB = 160.6 * 9 charges = 1445 shield points

Resist mods and rigs affect them the same way. Though if you are aiming for pure EHP the extender rigs perform better than resist rigs for omnitank performance.

Note that MSEs are power hungry while MASB's are CPU monsters. In my experience most MASB fits tend to require additional CPU mod, which is a big compromise.

So, on non bonused ships it is not a big difference.

On bonused ships though, MASB perform quite well.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#9 - 2014-02-01 12:00:15 UTC
Deerin wrote:
MSE II = 1050 *1.25 skill = 1312.5 shield points
Overheated MASB = 160.6 * 9 charges = 1445 shield points

In terms of frigate duels, where the possibility of surviving long enough to reload the ASB is minimal, you should also bear in mind that the ASB can also be run from your ship's own capacitor - It is a hungry beast but it may be able to give you a couple of additional cycles assuming you're not under intense cap pressure, increasing the differencial between the modules.
You will need to ensure that you turn off auto-reload to gain benefit from this however.

The additional recharge granted by a shield extender is unlikely to be of benefit in the duel situation - the shield recharge time of your ship will remain the same but during that time you will gain an additional 1300 hp - the curve is non-linear but that means around 2 HP per second for a 600 second recharge...
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-02-02 01:07:07 UTC
Deerin wrote:
On non bonused ships:

MSE II = 1050 *1.25 skill = 1312.5 shield points
Overheated MASB = 160.6 * 9 charges = 1445 shield points

Resist mods and rigs affect them the same way. Though if you are aiming for pure EHP the extender rigs perform better than resist rigs for omnitank performance.

Note that MSEs are power hungry while MASB's are CPU monsters. In my experience most MASB fits tend to require additional CPU mod, which is a big compromise.

So, on non bonused ships it is not a big difference.

On bonused ships though, MASB perform quite well.



The difference here is not as much as I thought. I was on a break when they nerfed the ASB. Seems like an an unbonused ship, an extender + cdfe rig will be outright better than an asb + CPU mod/rig (which you usually have to fit).

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#11 - 2014-02-02 01:57:37 UTC
ASB fits should fit resist rigs, generally you can make that work.
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-02-02 05:37:40 UTC
Forget all that nonsense. Just use the aar and be done with it
Gh0stBust3rs
Templars HIghsec
Stellar Fusion
#13 - 2014-02-02 06:44:46 UTC
I am not a fan of the asbs personally. While they can/do give insane tank i prefer buffer fits for pvp.


asb+bonused hull+booster+crystals= never die tank
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#14 - 2014-02-02 07:32:39 UTC
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
Forget all that nonsense. Just use the aar and be done with it


True.

An overheated small aar => 171.6*8 = 1372 EHP

It cost much less fitting space, it takes a low slot, which leaves your meds to fit ewar mods, which are usually much more useful than brute tank or dps. Yes it costs energy to run it, but in a frig, you usually have energy enough to run one magazine, which is all you need in a fight.

Oh it also has awesome aux nano rigs to boost its performance even further.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#15 - 2014-02-02 15:41:56 UTC
Deerin wrote:
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
Forget all that nonsense. Just use the aar and be done with it


True.

An overheated small aar => 171.6*8 = 1372 EHP

It cost much less fitting space, it takes a low slot, which leaves your meds to fit ewar mods, which are usually much more useful than brute tank or dps. Yes it costs energy to run it, but in a frig, you usually have energy enough to run one magazine, which is all you need in a fight.

Oh it also has awesome aux nano rigs to boost its performance even further.


Or use both! I know dual-tanking will cause most eve players to start a riot but I've had alot of success with a Breacher with a MASB and an AAR, it has enough fitting to fit both as well as damage control, BCU and full tackle with only 1 CPU rig, and it gives you a very big tank for a T1 frig and people don't expect it. The other options for the spare low would be a nano but the Breacher is already fast.

However if you're dealing with something that has alot of dps you can have trouble getting off your entire AAR magazine.
Degnar Oskold
Moira.
#16 - 2014-02-03 21:41:37 UTC
ASB for solo, SE for fleet.

Why?

Because if you are primaried by multiple opponents, they will alpha through your ASB between activations. You will die before you managed to fire off all charges.