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Landing on planets / Flying in atmosphere

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CMD Ishikawa
New Eden Public Security Section 9
#21 - 2014-01-17 12:16:39 UTC
Our ships are not designed to be inside of planets, it's like putting wheels on the USS Ronald Reagan and make it move in the ground, it was not made for that.

If we are going to have some interaction with planets, other than the feature we already have, CCP will create the machines for it.
Denak Calamari
Incorruptibles
#22 - 2014-01-17 12:55:10 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Balancing the lore with the actions of the game should be interesting. I sort of remember a Titan crashing on a planet and merc clones battling on that planet. Kind of puts a big hole in the raw material of tritanium bursting into instant flame when used in ship construction.
This has been explained many times already, Tritanium is just a raw material, not an actual building component. When added with other raw materials, it doesn't suddenly burst into flames when entering an atmosphere. The main problem here really is that most EVE ships have the aerodynamics of a brick, so they just crash down into the ground.

Matar Ronin wrote:
The bigger problem is going to be reconciling how the merc clones beam around from their home bases to MCCs above target planets. I think this is going to be very difficult for CCP to maintain consistency with game mechanics until EVE pilots start delivering merc clones to planets. A warbarge being transported in the maintenance bay of a carrier or cargo ship will eventually have to be introduced to cement the ties between the two games that share the same gaming universe
You're confusing the terms a little here. MCC(Mobile Command Center) is the ship that is deployed above the battlefield, Warbarge is the huge ship that is flying above the planet. And the answer really is simple, dust mercs use clone jumping as their prime method of travel. As long as there are clones in the destination in which a mercenary can jump to, he can go there instantly. What is actually transported in the Warbarges and MCCs are stock clones in which mercs can jump into, they don't have to physically board the ships.

And if you didn't know, CCP has plans for making Warbarges actual ships in EVE(Orca sized if I remember right) which can transport clones and MCCs to target planets.

Vincent Athena wrote:
Most every ship in the game can accelerate faster than 1 g (10 m/sec/sec) so they should be able to support their weight via thrust.
Strapping huge rockets into a brick doesn't make it fly. You just made a brick with extra thrust that will fly uncontrollably in every single direction until it crashes in a burst of flame.

Vincent Athena wrote:
But do they have to? Right now I can take any ship in the game, fly it to a planet, come to a stop and it just sits there. I see no reason it would not continue just sitting there if it was in an atmosphere or one foot off the ground.
The main difference with flying in space and flying above the surface of a planet is that there is gravity and air that causes friction and all kinds of other troubles. Your ship's onboard computer simply stops you from advancing any further as to prevent you from crashing into the planet in a ball of fire.
Publius Valerius
AirGuard
LowSechnaya Sholupen
#23 - 2014-01-17 15:20:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Publius Valerius
Hi to all, and sorry for any misspellings

I think many people have put forward good ideas. I like Vincent Athena point (here). I hope I can explain.

As he said, our ships and all orbital object dont react to gravitation fields. As he said, they dont need have energy (Centrifugal force) to keep in orbit. Which means like he said. If you, in a gravitation field of a planet, 1m above or 100m or 1000m doesnt matter. Which implies their is some sort of gravity nulification system. Moreover if we look into bigger gravitation fields, like a sun or blackhole/wormhole. Ingame we can stay in front of a wormhole all day and dont get influenced by its energy/mass.


As he said: "Most every ship in the game can accelerate faster than 1 g (10 m/sec/sec) so they should be able to support their weight via thrust. But do they have to?" As I see it, with a gravity nulification system horizontal or vertical movement on a planet OR ANY OTHER GRAVITATION FIELD doesnt matter. What I mean with it? It means, a Spaceship moving from A to B -- 100m -- along the horizon of a planet or a Spaceshop moving from 0 to 100m above the ground doesnt matter. They need both the same energy.

I can see that ingame.... If you fly towards a sun -- a massive gravitation field -- you dont get influence by it (aka "suck in"), or you fly along/next to a sun; it doesnt matter, you need for both the same energy.





As for the point of "The main difference with flying in space and flying above the surface of a planet is that there is gravity and air that causes friction and all kinds of other troubles." Which I which I split in two: (1) gravitation field of a planet (2) friction. As for (1) As other already mention, the gravitation field of a planet is nothing, to suns or wormholes, so if a spaceship hasnt any problems with those, it should have for sure not have a problem with a flimsy planet. The same counts for point (2). When I can jump in and out of a gravitation anomaly (aka Wormhole), without even get red shields I should with ease go in and out of an atmosphere. Both are movements which spike energy (which means also friction, etc...) as they "go through"/"cut through" gravitation field lines/mass, but those are really on a different scale. If a ship can survive a jump through a wormhole, then it can survive for sure that bit of atmosphere. As already told by others, I think the shields should do just fine.

As for the point: About "bricks" and "aerodynamics". As Vincent Athena alredy said, all comes down to if a object is able to support its weight via thrust. What many people dont know is that actually our military airplanes are flying bricks... or lets say flying rockets......and their anhedral wings mean that no human can control them*. They are control by a onboard-computer, and the monkey on the stick is just that, a moneky on a stick. I know I can already here you people: "Dude why they have wings?" The wings are less a control thingy, and more a support for their heavy weight (and our ships dont need that, as they have engouh thrust).

But this discussion is actully not needed, if we go out from the fact that all ships have a gravity nulification system**. As I said, then they just need energy to move from A to B.


Your
-PV


______________
P.S. Again sorry for any misspellings.
*they are the opposite of dihedral wings. Dihedral wings counter a rolling moment, because the surface of the lower wing gets bigger, which means a increase in stability. Anhedral wings are the opposite.
**A gravity nulification system could be also a cheap cop out for the case that our ships are getting slowed down (just make something up Big smile). What I mean with it? Example, when we turn of a Afterburner we loss speed like if we were in a submarine.

I would love to have those classes ingame. See here:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/376566/march-07-2011/joshua-foer

Iria Jovakko
Doomheim
#24 - 2014-01-17 18:49:42 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Feel free to attempt atmospheric entry with a Rifter... I'll be on standby to mop you up with a sponge Lol


Ho ho ho, I was doing it with dramiel and all I can say is Planets are a lie.
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
#25 - 2014-01-18 01:41:41 UTC
As someone already mentioned CCP actually did do this at one point. I have no idea why it ended with the demo but linking it here for those that havent seen it before.
CMD Ishikawa
New Eden Public Security Section 9
#26 - 2014-01-18 02:30:08 UTC
NightCrawler 85 wrote:
As someone already mentioned CCP actually did do this at one point. I have no idea why it ended with the demo but linking it here for those that havent seen it before.


Nice...!

Perhaps Falcon or any other dev can tell us why that ended being only a demo, what was the idea behind that demonstration?
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#27 - 2014-01-18 13:39:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Teinyhr
CMD Ishikawa wrote:
Nice...!

Perhaps Falcon or any other dev can tell us why that ended being only a demo, what was the idea behind that demonstration?


No need, I can tell you. It's just one of those things CCP thought would be cool, they spent a fair bit of resources for it, until someone higher up decided it was outdated or something else was cooler and it was promptly abandoned with all due haste because that one word is law. /bittervet

See: All other things they have demoed before, such as the WiS wreck exploration thing, WiS in general. /bittervet2
Yosef Brinalle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2014-01-19 04:32:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Yosef Brinalle
Kel hound wrote:
As for handwavium magitech like grav-lifts, I'm afraid I have no idea. Maybe?


Absolutely yes. Half the ships in EVE have thrust vectors that if matched to their center of mass would leave them spinning in space like a merry go round. EVE has more relationship to science fantasy that it ever will to science fiction.

What is the difference between EVE and reality? In reality everything around us is the outcome of rules (of nature) we have no control over. In EVE all rules are artificially created to produce a desired outcome, or sometimes just to make something 'look cool'. EVERYTHING in EVE is handwavium magitech.

The best thing we can hope for is a little consistency. But when you license authors to write books, 'consistency' will always take a back seat to 'interesting'.
Kurt Ilkesi
Blacksand Voodoo
#29 - 2014-01-20 11:40:14 UTC
Gravity does not exist in EvE.

This aspect of planetary life that in our real lives we have come to view as a normal and inescapable law of nature, governing various principles of mass and matter, simply does not exist in the parallel universe that contains New Eden.

This is why planets do not maintain orbits around their suns, and why you can sit at any distance from any of the celestial objects of varying degrees of super massive without any silly vertiginous accumulation of retrograde or as otherwise motion.

Forget your antigrav machines... those thrusters on Drops Ships are for sexy drive by's during he odd lull in corporate greed.


At any time in which you feel that gravity is somehow affecting you, be that in station or playing DUST, take the time to reconsider your erroneous assumption.

*cue Twilight Zone Title Music*
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#30 - 2014-01-29 17:47:32 UTC
Esna Pitoojee wrote:
While I do acknowledge that the Rifter certainly could have landing skids - it is certainly one of the more aerodynamic ships in EVE -Theodicy (and just about anything else written by TonyG) tends to play fast and loose with a lot of lore, so I'm hesitant to give much credit towards that; another of his novels had a dreadnought somehow manage sustained atmospheric flight.


actually 2 manage it in that book.
admittedly to limited success on both counts.
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