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CCP Development Patterns

First post
Author
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#41 - 2014-01-29 14:29:20 UTC
Random Woman wrote:


It might not be "in" to talk about software quality in games industry in times of kickstarter, greenlight and whatever, but it seems its still very nessesary to bring that topic up.

Of cause Eve is an old application, but the more important is it to keep the code clean and well tested. I'd rather see one team testing and onther one refactorng code, than all teams doing stuff, and breaking even more stuff in the progress.
I've seen my share of spaghetti code, and of poorly-validated products. Even more of poor development methoodology. CCP has the basic 'right stuff' but the dots aren't all connecting quite as they ought.

An over-all auditor with no development responsibility, but only a responsibility to police the process and step back to take a '10,000-foot look' might be helpful.


Also: I would willingly surrender new features for a couple years spent cleaning up and rationalizing the code. I understand that might not be commercially appetizing, but at the far end, new development would be so much easier...
I also understand I might be in the distinct minority. P

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

Prince Kobol
#42 - 2014-01-29 14:39:44 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Can somebody fill me in over why there are so many tears?

What did I miss that was so incredibly game breaking that it has caused people to pretend they know anything about something?


Standings got broken and people were scared to undock.


Lmao, all of this just because standings.. that was some of the most fun I have had in ages.

I honestly wanted CCP to take there time over that one.. you know, maybe a few months Twisted
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#43 - 2014-01-29 14:42:34 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Can somebody fill me in over why there are so many tears?

What did I miss that was so incredibly game breaking that it has caused people to pretend they know anything about something?


Standings got broken and people were scared to undock.


Lmao, all of this just because standings.. that was some of the most fun I have had in ages.

I honestly wanted CCP to take there time over that one.. you know, maybe a few months Twisted

Nah. That kinda thing is only fun when it's totally random, and people haven't had time to figure out works-around. Once they adapt, the fun is gone.

Now, if New Eden were to be inflicted with haxxors whom went about, randomly screwing with sov, concord standings, and other important security markers, well... THAT would be comedy I could appreciate! Twisted

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2014-01-29 15:13:09 UTC
Rule #1: In an ideal reality, QA tests are 100% efficient and consistently catch all bugs every time prior to the major release, no matter the quantity of features implemented, complexity of changes or sneakiness of said bug.

Rule #2: We don't live in an ideal reality.

Love the rageposting after this happened though, it's like a second boot.ini or Incarna. Just, you know, without actually being boot.ini or Incarna.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

Serene Repose
#45 - 2014-01-29 15:13:16 UTC
Uh...looks like the operative word here is "outsource...ers.." Like the OP said... "CCP should...."

As an aside: After the great banking debacle, Iceland's only profitable corporation is________?

Blink

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Morganta
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
#46 - 2014-01-29 15:17:42 UTC
circling the drain for 10+ years....
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#47 - 2014-01-29 15:46:56 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
Rule #1: In an ideal reality, QA tests are 100% efficient and consistently catch all bugs every time prior to the major release, no matter the quantity of features implemented, complexity of changes or sneakiness of said bug.

Rule #2: We don't live in an ideal reality.
Whilst true, a closer approximation to Rule #1 is both possible, and desirable.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-01-29 15:49:33 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
Random Woman wrote:


It might not be "in" to talk about software quality in games industry in times of kickstarter, greenlight and whatever, but it seems its still very nessesary to bring that topic up.

Of cause Eve is an old application, but the more important is it to keep the code clean and well tested. I'd rather see one team testing and onther one refactorng code, than all teams doing stuff, and breaking even more stuff in the progress.
I've seen my share of spaghetti code, and of poorly-validated products. Even more of poor development methoodology. CCP has the basic 'right stuff' but the dots aren't all connecting quite as they ought.

An over-all auditor with no development responsibility, but only a responsibility to police the process and step back to take a '10,000-foot look' might be helpful.


Also: I would willingly surrender new features for a couple years spent cleaning up and rationalizing the code. I understand that might not be commercially appetizing, but at the far end, new development would be so much easier...
I also understand I might be in the distinct minority. P

+1 for using the word 'ought' !

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#49 - 2014-01-29 15:52:04 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Random Woman wrote:


It might not be "in" to talk about software quality in games industry in times of kickstarter, greenlight and whatever, but it seems its still very nessesary to bring that topic up.

Of cause Eve is an old application, but the more important is it to keep the code clean and well tested. I'd rather see one team testing and onther one refactorng code, than all teams doing stuff, and breaking even more stuff in the progress.
I've seen my share of spaghetti code, and of poorly-validated products. Even more of poor development methoodology. CCP has the basic 'right stuff' but the dots aren't all connecting quite as they ought.

An over-all auditor with no development responsibility, but only a responsibility to police the process and step back to take a '10,000-foot look' might be helpful.


Also: I would willingly surrender new features for a couple years spent cleaning up and rationalizing the code. I understand that might not be commercially appetizing, but at the far end, new development would be so much easier...
I also understand I might be in the distinct minority. P

+1 for using the word 'ought' !

I work with many, many folks over in the UK. It rubs off on one.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2014-01-29 15:55:18 UTC
Quote:
I work with many, many folks over in the UK. It rubs off on one.
That sounds sooooo right........ ;)

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#51 - 2014-01-29 15:56:21 UTC
Wow. Just wow.

The part that amazes me about this whole thing is that CCP Goliath came here to address your concerns, tried to explain things, and did so taking time out of his work day (which incidentally is spent fixing the **** that everyone is bitching about).

And immediately after doing so the collective persona of Eve GD proceeds to throw feces at him like little ******* monkeys.

There was a thread a couple of days ago about, "Why did you pick Eve?" I picked it because during my trial I found it more sophisticated and mature than WoW (pre-dumbass pandas). Now I look at the forums and see that it has no greater maturity. It's the same douchebaggery but coming from people averaging twice the age of the typical WoW player.

So the next time you post in a bitching thread about this thing or that thing, demanding that CCP respond, remember this day. If you all act this way when they do respond, next time they may not come back to tell you **** because you can't be ******* adult about it.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2014-01-29 16:05:27 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Wow. Just wow.

The part that amazes me about this whole thing is that CCP Goliath came here to address your concerns, tried to explain things, and did so taking time out of his work day (which incidentally is spent fixing the **** that everyone is bitching about).

And immediately after doing so the collective persona of Eve GD proceeds to throw ***** at him like little ******* monkeys.

There was a thread a couple of days ago about, "Why did you pick Eve?" I picked it because during my trial I found it more sophisticated and mature than WoW (pre-dumbass pandas). Now I look at the forums and see that it has no greater maturity. It's the same douchebaggery but coming from people averaging twice the age of the typical WoW player.

So the next time you post in a bitching thread about this thing or that thing, demanding that CCP respond, remember this day. If you all act this way when they do respond, next time they may not come back to tell you **** because you can't be ******* adult about it.
Just as predicted. No blaming CCP Goliath... he can't possibly know.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

seth Hendar
I love you miners
#53 - 2014-01-29 17:10:10 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Wow. Just wow.

The part that amazes me about this whole thing is that CCP Goliath came here to address your concerns, tried to explain things, and did so taking time out of his work day (which incidentally is spent fixing the **** that everyone is bitching about).

And immediately after doing so the collective persona of Eve GD proceeds to throw ***** at him like little ******* monkeys.

There was a thread a couple of days ago about, "Why did you pick Eve?" I picked it because during my trial I found it more sophisticated and mature than WoW (pre-dumbass pandas). Now I look at the forums and see that it has no greater maturity. It's the same douchebaggery but coming from people averaging twice the age of the typical WoW player.

So the next time you post in a bitching thread about this thing or that thing, demanding that CCP respond, remember this day. If you all act this way when they do respond, next time they may not come back to tell you **** because you can't be ******* adult about it.

it seems you just lack history regarding this.

we are not complaining about one specific issue, but about a chronic lack of QA in CCP's release.

i play since early 2010, and yet, not a SINGLE expansion have been released without breaking something major.

if you add this, to the fact that during testings, player DO give feedback, and even make constructive proposals, only to get simply ignored by CCP, like unified inventory, odyssey exploration, the jump animation(wich is STILL making some ppl sick), the missiles thingy, the various rebalances done after the cruisers which litteraly made some ship useless (half matar is now missiles? wtf?), more recently, the ESS (and the list goes on......).

there is a moment when, if the only interaction you have with the player base, is to smear your crap in their face, they'll start doing the same.

it's called mutual respect, not talking about a dev specificaly, but CCP in general, seems to ignore this.

an angry player base will go vocal, and the longer you ignore it, the more vocal it'll go, and the less it will be open to compromises.

CCP learned that during incarna, or should have......

i'm starting to ask myself if they aren't secretly wishing for it to happen again, at least they act like it.....
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#54 - 2014-01-29 17:18:37 UTC
That's great. Let's invoke Incarna every time something bad happens. Hell people are still invoking boot.ini when they're crying about ****.

Bad **** happens. ******* get over it. If you are honestly that fed up then biomass, unsub, and NEVER look back.

Been playing since 2008. Never been upset about anything new or broken or different. But by all means, you go on raging impotently and bang your fist on the desk harder because that has ALWAYS been the manner in which one is constructive and engaged. Roll

And missiles are ******* awesome!

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#55 - 2014-01-29 17:20:08 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
This really doesn't help understanding how such a bug can see the light on TQ. Your post just makes if look worse...


That wasn't what I was trying to address, so that isn't surprising. I have addressed that in other posts so won't do so again.




Don't let the butthurt nerdragers drag on you over this. It was great entertainment watching them freak out when they could not make their usual hyper-use of the op local tool and were docked up and squealing.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Morganta
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
#56 - 2014-01-29 17:22:50 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Can somebody fill me in over why there are so many tears?

What did I miss that was so incredibly game breaking that it has caused people to pretend they know anything about something?


Standings got broken and people were scared to undock.


Lmao, all of this just because standings.. that was some of the most fun I have had in ages.

I honestly wanted CCP to take there time over that one.. you know, maybe a few months Twisted


amen

people were so befuddled we had a Vargur fly into the bubble from our last kill
he bastioned and lost his ass

2bil varg and his 2bil full-set-of-crystal pod

people who didn't fly last night were foolish

the standings crap added an extra 10 seconds to scouting, big deal
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#57 - 2014-01-29 17:28:36 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
That's great. Let's invoke Incarna every time something bad happens. Hell people are still invoking boot.ini when they're crying about ****.

Bad **** happens. ******* get over it. If you are honestly that fed up then biomass, unsub, and NEVER look back.

Been playing since 2008. Never been upset about anything new or broken or different. But by all means, you go on raging impotently and bang your fist on the desk harder because that has ALWAYS been the manner in which one is constructive and engaged. Roll

And missiles are ******* awesome!

yeah, cause when player gives constructive feedback, it goes ho so well......Roll
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#58 - 2014-01-29 18:03:09 UTC
seth Hendar wrote:
yeah, cause when player gives constructive feedback, it goes ho so well......Roll


This would be a good argument if there were anything constructive in this thread,

Or this one:

NuroCorp wrote:
Or is this working as intended, and Successfully Deployed?Shocked

Get your asses in gear and fix all the things you screwed up. While your at it, get all the little retards who were involved in this update, throw them in the meeting room and over megaphone tell them why they suck at there job.

"Coding is hard..." excuses " Fix it or we will remove the body guards that save you from the village rabble. That should help them work both day and night.

Out of the epic patch fails, sure this doesn't rank in the top three, but its sure a contender for Bork up of the year, 2014.


Or this one:


Lugia3 wrote:
The d-scan window no longer shows the precision tracking camera button. I haven't found it yet, and it probably doesn't exist. The normal tracking camera also does not work for this, because it does not aim towards the center.

Fix it.

Fix it now.

[EDIT: Always count on CCP to take simple functions and make you go through a radial menu to access them again!"


"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#59 - 2014-01-29 18:36:51 UTC
All this butthurt because standings indications in the overpowered tool known as local were disabled for a day.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

l0rd carlos
New Order Outreach Division
CODE.
#60 - 2014-01-29 18:42:59 UTC
seth Hendar wrote:

tell me again how one would have missed the current standing issue if it would have been tested on another server? because except that the person running the test is blind, no way to miss it.


I was quite often on sisi and I did not notice it at all.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos