Ships & Modules

Since CCP has devoted their time to fixing alot of things have been very annoying and bad in the last years. I think it is time that they also look at one of the most stupid decisions they have probably made.

Except DPS they make no sacrifice. People can tackle, scout and tank with these ships at the same time.

In travel they are practically invulnerable. With an insta-safes they will get out of every single station, even in 0.0. If you happen to actually tackle on at a station the ******** ehp will let him easily redock (if they happen to undock at a bad angle on kickouts they can ctrl-space and redock).

To actually catch one on a gate you need a good hour of setting up can (which will be petioned). You need enough DPS and effective tackle so they do not make it back to the gate.

Despite the scanning changes they can still sit around being practically unscannable, in some cases even run missions or plexes while being totally immune.

It takes almost no effort to fly these ships through any space.

Especially the Tengu is just totally overpwoered. Not taking its PvE abilities into account its agility allows it to even warp out if it randomly happens to get decloaked.

I think its time that this issue gets addressed.


this was posted in another section.
here what i answered:

It's interesting how many people respond to this with comments like "lololol learn to fly" and it kinda urges me to give me 2 cents.

This whole discussion has a lot of parallels with other discussions about balancing issiues and as usual the same effect shows:

If someone is effective or good at something he will always think it's because of his immense skill and abilities.
People who were flying 12 km/s curses back in the nanodays were convinced the nly reason they were so effective was because they were extremely good pilots. Every complaint about nanos being overpowered would just result in "learn to fly lolol" comments.

Fast forward a bit and you will find the very same arguments for the supercaps. People in general just tend to do that and it's not eve related. No one who aces a test will ever admit that he was just lucky as **** etc.

Anyways with the t3s we get the same arguments and defenses as with those other examples i mentioned. The op presents a case for a ship that can cloak, avoid bubbles and align as fast as a helios (rolleyes) to be nigh impossible to catch and i must admit that i agree with the op.

the cloaky nullified t3 was the single most stupid thing ccp ever did for the following reasons:

- It was an extreme buff to botting. Before t3s you could catch botters if you put effort into it by putting up bubbles or logging off in their anomaly + timing their rewarp or relog. This is now impossible because t3s ignore bubbles. remember how botting suddenly became a big ******* problem once the nullified tengu was out there?

- The ability to avoid bubbles or to warp cloaked or to align in 3 seconds are all very useful by themselves. What makes cloaky nullified t3s a problem is that they can do ALL of the above. There is no tradeoff in a senso of "i can ignore bubbles but that makes me align slow" etc. History in eve has shown that if a ship is too good at a specialized role there is a good chance of a balancing issue

- The risk-versus-reward tradeoff is completely obsolete when it comes to t3-nullies. Ratting or missioning in lowsec/nullsec should be more risky and hence more rewarding than doing it in highsec. With t3s this is not true. A cloaky nullified t3 can still easily tank and blitz many lev 4 missions with close to no risk of being caught. While you may still be able to catch a t3 on a gate with extreme effort and luck it is not nigh but impossible to catch one on a station. I'm sure this will earn me a lot of "lololol learn to eve" comments but i don't care cause it's true.

- They don't sacrifice any multiplier role for their ability to escape/evade everything. A cloaky nullified ship does not sacrifice ability to probe, it does not lose any ability to tank rats and it does not lose any ability to boost their gang. And if you think sacrificing dps is the only thing that counts then you are a ******. Fights are almost never decided by the dps ships.


Just t conclude my wall of text: linking killmails doesnt prove or disprove anything. With any ship you will have retards disconnects or sheer luck. It's not like no vaga ever dies during the nanoage

Chris
Terrible at eve

No, tank also counts, but such a ship won't have any tank because they will not have the slots for it — even less so if they're also supposed to provide fleet bonuses.
Oh, you mean those tanks that fall apart instantly if something actually threatening shoots at them?

U MAD BRO?

To survive when it's probed down and shot at.
…and that still makes them easy to kill and pretty much completely unthreatening to anyone.

You said that “its [sic] time this issue gets addressed" — I don't quite see the issue.

Silly question. The issue is that he's not getting free kms. Such is the thought process of fresh pubbie from single player games. It should be easy to win in pvp. After all, everyone else exist for their enjoyment.

And still T3s die every day, i wonder why.

Chriss0r, you're doing it wrong.

I have no problem killing cloaky, nullified, unscannable T3's and I live right next to you. T3's are not overpowered in this configuration in any respect. If you choose to run cloaky and nullified, you lose over half your dps, even more if you actually want to fit pvp mids. If you fit unscannable, you are wasting 3 mid slots to do so, and you can still be scanned down, just buy some virtue implants.

The reason I don't care about cloaky T3's running missions is becuase they don't make **** for isk since they do missions slowly. The missions where they can finish it fast enough to make it worth it are just as easily doable in a frigate like a dramiel so there is no risk either way, and with the T3 you're just risking 400 more mil.

It honestly seems like you are complaining because there is no easy to way to say "I have 10 guys here that can camp, so I should be able to catch everything that undocks or jumps gate." I see no reason to complain about T3's in a fleet fight, any cloaky/nullified fits are useless in the battle, and even if there are unscannable fleet boosts for the enemy fleet, they take barely any time to train for, just get your own.

T3's fit out to be hard to catch are supposed to be hard to catch, especially if they're piloted by non-idiots.

EDIT:



So why should I fly a 500mil ship to probe when i can fly a 20mil probing frigate and just as easily escape any gate camp since I can move at 3000m/s ? At least that way I can guarantee that i can burn back to gate if there are cans out or enough people out to decloak my T3. Who cares about tanking rats while you're cloaky and interdiction nullified? You're making 30mil isk/hr, why would anybody care if anybody is stupid enough to do that. If you dislike bots, you should be complaining about CCP being horribly incompetent at getting rid of them rather than a ship class. And as far as unscannable gang links go, I think this is honestly a very stupid argument because frankly rarely do people actually try to scan these ships down. I have, in the past, used a cyclone to gang boost myself, and it wasn't unscannable, I just left it in an off-scan bookmark aligned out and would periodically check for probes--you would not catch me even if you tried to scan me--this isn't any different in result than running an unscannable gang booster except that I don't have to waste my time watching out for my ship. I do agree that fights are almost never decided by the dps ships, but they are most certainly almost never decided by a cloaky nullified T3. They are decided by other EWAR ships like the curse, falcon, what have you and the tengu or any other T3 never plays those roles because they are quite simply worse than their recon counterparts for playing these roles.

In my opinion T3's give the ability for individual or small groups of players to effectively be safer against larger groups of players through scouting/boosting etc... without having to deal with dualboxing and actively fighting on multiple accounts, and this is a good thing.

>implying I fly covert ops interdiction nullified tengus :P The fact that I don't should be apparent from the effort I went through to make warp spots to redock when the n5y station was bubble camped.

Also, show me proof of you making 200mil an hour in a covert ops interdiction nullified tengu. This, in my experience, is impossible.

And you have to keep in mind that guristas missions don't exist everywhere in 0.0. I would argue that if anything, you should be complaining about the profitability of guristas missions since that's really the only reason why you would care about having covert ops tengus in your area regardless of whether or not they are catchable. I.e. you wouldn't care about afk cloakers because they aren't doing anything.

And yes, sure they are a botter's dream. But like I said before, this isn't a problem of T3's, this is a problem of CCP failing to do anything really about catching botters. Blaming T3's for botting is ridiculous because it's stupid to compromise gameplay (in my opinion) to make botting harder. Botting should just be better monitored, and there should not be any sort of absurd rules like only getting a 2 week ban for the first offense so that the botters can just sell their character, buy a new one, and start anew.