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NSA intercepting laptops to plant bugs and malware ...

Author
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-01-03 03:27:45 UTC
Basically big brother is making sure no one is kicking him out of power. At least in the USA there's nothing anyone can do. This kind of stuff is supported by both political parities in power. The only thing that will collapse the government at this point is rot from the inside.


I wish we could find out who the NSA players are in Eve... I want to gank them Big smile
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-01-03 03:31:11 UTC
Akita T wrote:
Hesod Adee wrote:
Akita T wrote:
A perfect world is one with complete surveillance combined with no rules whatsoever except "do not intentionally harm another human" (and also automatic safeguards against accidental harm of another human, but that's a different can of worms)...
We're apparently getting closer on the first part. And getting closer with full steam.
Woefully lacking on the second part though. And not even willing to get closer to it.

Surveillance is no use without competent people looking at all the recorded data.

If the only rule set would be "do no harm", that should be easy to automate given sufficiently decent surveillance.
And you only need a jury-like group of random people (the more, the merrier) to decide whether stuff that gets flagged is really bad or not.

Define 'harm' in a way that a computer could understand.

As for judging the data after it's flagged, you're ignoring how difficult it will be to flag it in the first place.
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#23 - 2014-01-03 18:09:10 UTC
Hesod Adee wrote:
Akita T wrote:
If the only rule set would be "do no harm", that should be easy to automate given sufficiently decent surveillance.
And you only need a jury-like group of random people (the more, the merrier) to decide whether stuff that gets flagged is really bad or not.

Define 'harm' in a way that a computer could understand.
As for judging the data after it's flagged, you're ignoring how difficult it will be to flag it in the first place.

Just because either one of us with our current limited understanding of what technology can do wouldn't be able to adequately define a next to fool-proof way of defining it doesn't mean it can't ever be done with sufficient accuracy.

Even if it couldn't actually be done in real-time and with near-perfect accuracy, you still have a fairly decent workaround which is both already implementable to some degree (with the bonus of being easy to explain) and satisfactorily accurate.
Basically, if a person is alive (and that should be easy to ascertain) and in adequate mental health (not that easy to check, but a rough approximation can be used practically), they can do the flagging themselves. And if they're dead (which should be trivial to flag), reviewing the surveillance can reveal the cause of death easily enough most of the time.
Yes, there are exceptions and workarounds, but most can be handled with additional simple rules.
And, well, for the rest, there's always the equivalent of police to search for and investigate possible unflagged harm.
Adunh Slavy
#24 - 2014-01-03 20:54:12 UTC
Akita T wrote:
If the only rule set would be "do no harm", that should be easy to automate given sufficiently decent surveillance.
And you only need a jury-like group of random people (the more, the merrier) to decide whether stuff that gets flagged is really bad or not.



"Do No Harm", So I can spy on you and know everything you do, but you have to trust me, or this mythically jury, who operates in secret (I.E. FISA court) not to abuse that information, and that supposedly is not doing you any harm?

Government spying is harm. There is no wishy washy half way answer that can absolve government of its evil.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Capt Under
Starlight Holdings
#25 - 2014-01-06 16:14:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Capt Under
A perfect world is one with complete transparency which breed justice for all, which are not the same as goverment surveillance which currently are dominated by the military industrial complex and indirectly by Corporate America. As we should ALL learn from history (but still fail due to being naive, complacent and stubborn), all big power structures eventual become corrupted by conflict of interest including government which really should be treated as an teenager and not as an adult.
Leave powerful goverment with to much lack of accountability and they become like the spoiled rich teenagers burning down the neighborhood and using your tax money + credit card to pay for hookers, drugs and 5 star hotels. Goverment answer to the people which serve as "parent" not the other way around.
As "parent" it's your citizen obligation to make sure your goverment stay honest and responsible. Taking personal responsibility also dictate not trusting any information at face value but listen to independent media for balanced reporting and investigative journalism.

Saying goverment surveillance will do no harm is like saying a bunch of spoiled rich teenagers will not abuse their position of power. To many people still suffer from "stockholm syndrome" where the victim try to rationalize "soft tyranny" or "soft despotism". The goverment are doing it for "the people" so "soft despotism" must be necessary evil, right?
So what's next?
Cobra commander announces his candidacy - 2016? Because tyranny have become cool!
The bad guys in US are like 10 steps ahead of most civilians and many people still try to rationalize "soft despotism" while despots wannabes in Kings Landing (Washingting DC) are plotting to destroy whatever is left of the constitution and US founding principles. Now go back to sleep America, everything is ok. The goverment got the corruption under control, LMAO Roll
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."
Thomas Jefferson

Personal I belong in the camp that say, give me freedom or death. I am much more afraid of abuse of power than death so there are nothing in my world that can rationalize "soft despotism".
Fortunately soldiers that are politically active are not as ignorant as most civilians, they are waking up. What will you do when the military or militia roll into town to start a revolution? watch more braindead TV or get a grip on reality that this is not a joke. Soon or later the "positive military/militia" will make a stand and this is the end game and the countdown has already started. Tick tock, time to wake up.

All the soliders took an oath of enlistment to defend the US constitution but because of all the privatisation that started after WW1/WW2 there have been a conflict of interest within the military industrial complex. That privatisation, President Eisenhower warned about in his farewell speech 1961, but much earlier warnings was given by Major General Smedley Butler that prevented the police state plot of 1933.
Privatisation of the military and corporate power dont answer to the people they answer to the war profiteers on Wall Street such as big banks/big oil. As General Butler said in his book, war is a racket and Butler saw first hand that the military was used as mercenaries for Wall Street.
It's well documented that WW2 Germany was funded by "I.G. Farben" which had close ties to American oil companies such as Standard Oil, the same ownership and mentality that today now make alot of money from American investment banks and duping the military to secure their petro dollar system that was put into place by Henry Kissinger in 1973. Not to mention, look at the tax exempt foundations that have been funding Monsanto? Hallo!. Same criminals again. Using tax exempt foundations to avoid public scrutiny and launder money to financial support collectivism are quite brilliant but also very sinister.
German members of "I.G. Farben" did indeed go to jail for supporting WW2 Germany so this is public record and not speculation. But the American members of "I.G. Farben" was never prosecuted. But most important why? have the big media failed to tell Americans the whole story about Major General Smedley Butler which confirmed the existence of American members of "I.G. Farben".
The bad guys know what's on stake here, prison or WW3. They know it, which is why they are using every dirty trick in the handbook to start a war with Syria and/or Iran. Dont but take my word for it, listen to General Wesley Clark: Wars Were Planned

“In the lead up to the Iraq war and its later conduct, I saw at a minimum, true dereliction, negligence and irresponsibility, at worse, lying, incompetence and corruption.”
General, Anthony Zinni (former Commander in Chief of the United States Central Command)

You think goverment surveillance is bad? You think the US won WW2? What's important to know about WW2 is not who won on the battlefield but who won control of the printing press and operation Golden Lilly to steal vast amount of hidden gold reserves from countries throughout Asia. Follow the money/gold and it all goes back to the Federal Reserve System and Bank for International Settlements. BIS and the FED control all the hidden trust funds that have been confirmed do exist by whistle blowers such as Karen Hudes.

The only thing we know for sure is that we know very little about the world we live in. This is just the beginning of disclosure and in 2014 and years forward, the general public will be hard pressed to go much deeper into the rabbit hole.
Sarik Farek
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2014-01-24 13:38:25 UTC
Hesod Adee wrote:
Spy on everyone. Claim to be after bad guys.

Does the NSA even know how to process all that raw data into useful information ?

Is there anyone working for the NSA who will even ask that question ?



Don't worry about the processing part...
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#27 - 2014-01-24 21:33:14 UTC
The NSA: Spamming themselfs with porn from my hard drive since forever.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-01-25 04:43:59 UTC
Sarik Farek wrote:
Hesod Adee wrote:
Spy on everyone. Claim to be after bad guys.

Does the NSA even know how to process all that raw data into useful information ?

Is there anyone working for the NSA who will even ask that question ?



Don't worry about the processing part...


Got to love it. Sadly most Americans don't really care because they have the "sheep" mentality.
Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
#29 - 2014-01-27 19:22:25 UTC
IIshira wrote:


Got to love it. Sadly most Americans don't really care because they have the "sheep" mentality.


At least one thing we know for sure, Caldari state exists for real. Where are the RL Minmatar ? ;-)

0ccupational Hazzard --> check out the true love story 

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#30 - 2014-01-28 09:09:14 UTC
Brujo Loco wrote:


Put your tinfoil hats on boys!
hmm well the latest thing is they, and the GCHQ are using things like Angry Birds to get all kinds of info from you. Yes... because we all know how terrorists... love... angry birds...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/27/nsa-gchq-smartphone-app-angry-birds-personal-data

I'm in it for the money

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