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Cloaky probey tackly neuty Loki?

Author
Knoor Shardani
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-01-24 11:32:07 UTC
I need somebody to tell me if that fit is completely out of whack or is it viable for the job I had in mind when putting it together. On paper stats look ok but I have a feeling that I may be missing some crucial detail that will make it an idiotic idea to actually put it in space.

Ok, so job is - as you may figure out from subject itself - to probe targets, warp to them, uncloak, tackle and start neuting until fleet lands and takes care of doing actual damage. This is not meant to be solo t3 pilgrim, it's only job is to find and keep targets from escaping and to weaken their defenses (and offense in case of cap dependent weapons like lazorz or hybrids) during relatively short period of time when fleet is warping in.

And targets I specifically have in mind are of course mostly ratters/mission runners in low and/or null (and maybe wormholes?).

Or, should I just train that frakking amarr cruiser to V, use cookie cutter pilgrim and spare myself very embarrassing lossmail?

[Loki, derpy]
Loki Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Loki Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
Loki Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Loki Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
'Langour' Drive Disruptor I
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800

Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade II
Medium Targeting Systems Stabilizer I
Medium Targeting Systems Stabilizer I

Stats: (all lvl5, and character I would use for this is not very far away from V in all relevant skills)
EHP (omni): 29.5k omni
Tank (omni): 450 cold / 535 hot hardeners / 583 only rep hot / 690 hot rep and hardeners
Cap: 2 min only neuts and tackle no booster / 27% stable with neuts tackle hardeners rep and booster / 1:48 with all running
Speed: 237 m/s no mwd / 1500 ms/ with mwd
Scan recalibration after decloak: 4:05 sec
Lock time: 4.5s pod / 3.2s helios / 2s and less for anything bigger

So here it is for you to point and laugh and troll but if you would like to give me actual feedback I won't mind it too :)
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#2 - 2014-01-24 11:40:50 UTC
You should just train amarr Cruiser V and Use a Neuting Legion or Pilgrim this idea is pretty dumb.
Knoor Shardani
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2014-01-24 11:47:30 UTC
Is it too squishy or doesn't neut enough to actually shut cap off in realistic time or in general dumb as one ship doing 4 jobs is 4 jobs done terribly and I should feel bad for even trying such thing?

And that is real question, not being snappy or mad or anything. I want to learn.
Odithia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-01-24 11:48:57 UTC
The Legion has a neut boosting subsystem, I guess it would work even better than your loki.
Won't be able to field that many points though.
Fit seems decent otherwise, maybe add a 4th neut?
Knoor Shardani
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2014-01-24 12:10:35 UTC
Well, I could put guns instead of neuts and get awesome 130 dps or sth like that out of them which might make somebody laugh hard enough to make their pixels explode.

Thing is I quite often find targets of opportunity while traveling solo around low/null/wh space and fleet is not just waiting for me to find it but is composed when said opportunity arises and it is close enough for quick hit and run. Also very often it is just me, my dps alt and one or two corpies so rather small gang not "pro" blob with BLOPS and caps and whole circus so I didn't consider fitting cyno.

And this is also a reason why I want probe launcher on it too. I have only 2 accounts and don't intent to have more so doing pure probing on one would require me to have my dps to be cloaky to avoid target to notice there is something hostile coming. With this fit I theoretically can warp in and get tackle while dps ships are already on their way.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#6 - 2014-01-24 12:20:23 UTC
I'd rather aim at tengu/proteus for cloaky tackling duties, if it is not to late. Both get upwards of 400dps, have a subsystem to warp twice as fast (incredibly useful) and a decent tank. In the case of the tengu, you can solo most ratters easily.

Used to fly a cloaky, plated 100mn loki. Approaching people and decloaking at 5km, AB on shoots even the biggest ship out of alignment. The tank also is beyond of what a AAR will ever create, dps have been some 400-430 I believe.
Knoor Shardani
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2014-01-24 12:38:12 UTC
It is not too late and I can fly tengu/proteus on my dps character, unfortunately my probey character can only fly one t3 and it is loki that is why I am looking for fit that could be useful as "heavy tackle" although I am not sure how much heavy ship should be to call it heavy tackle.

Anyway thanks for your input.
For now feedback ranges from "dumb" to meh to maybe so as far as I understand none of you would actually decloak it on real target :)
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#8 - 2014-01-24 16:13:25 UTC
No OP, the theory is solid, I would use this hunt/kill people no question, although i still might choose a different ship.

not having the long-range webs because of the emergent locus analyzer is a bite. But, if you don't mind losing paltry covert gun dps, the neutralizers are perfectly fine if used appropriately. And depending on what you kill, the neuts will help more even. The fit has a few issues.

-sort out those midslots. 60% web, 24km long point, and meta4 scram should be the MINIMUM for something like this. According to my EFT, you have plenty of fitting space for meta4 or t2. As this is a ship that shouldn't be dying much, I would strongly consider a longer range scrambler, and possibly a domination/RF 30km warp disruptor.
-FUEL catalyst? you've got a mwd fitted. Of the 4 useful subsystems, you picked the one that was totally useless for your fit. I would strongly consider a nullifier for nullsec work, I think the utility of one will outweigh your EANM. I would also consider faction hardeners for better overheating. Chassis optimization is also strong as it gives you a decent speed boost while moving cloaked, perhaps towards a target. Intercalcated nanofibers make you very agile, and are also worthwhile.

Rigs are okay. If you're going to use expensive implants I would upgrade to a smokescreen covops cloak for faster sensor recalibration.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Knoor Shardani
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2014-01-24 18:47:18 UTC
Wow, that is a ton of valuable info, thanks a lot.

Now, for your remarks:
- tackle: yes, definitely meta4 or t2 should be there, obviously I had blonde moment there. And yes, faction would be useful and justified considering job that fit should do. I just tend to not go for faction as my first choice when I am theory crafting.

- subsystem: to be honest I have no idea why I choose this one since, as you said, it is basically useless. I probably was so fixed on that +1 low slot and didn't even bother to think about alternatives (although 2 out of 3 of them are also +1 low slot).

I could always carry mobile depot and nulli subsystem for refitting before jumping into null/wh it's not like I will find myself there not intentionally. Or just change it at home and decide not to leave lowsec area. Or whatever, anyway yes I chose worst of subsystems I could for this fit. Thank you, thank you for pointing that derp to me.

Most important thing is that somebody else would at least consider to use this fit. That is basically what I was going after with this thread. I won't bling it and throw at first thing I see but at least I have some base to work on.

Thank you again.
Judas Lonestar
Stryker Industries
Stryker Group
#10 - 2014-01-24 20:58:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Judas Lonestar
Having actually flown beside one and not just theoryycrafting here....I love the things. Its a great round out to a small gang and can really neut the pants off things. Have a tanky Tengu you need taken down quick? That neuting Legion is just the ticket. Need to shut down prop mods? Take away the cap. Tired of those blasters on you? Drain the cap.

As you say, you dont want to use them solo but they definitely have their uses in a gang. I dont know the exact fit our guys use on theirs, so ant help you there. My advise is dont be afraid to try it out though.



ETA;

Heres one variant used by our guys.

Cov Ops
Medium Unstable x5

Medium Cap Booster II
Cap Recharger II
10mn AB II
Disruptor II

DC II
Thermic Hardener II
EM Hardener II
EANM II
1600mm Rolled Tungsten

Trimark Armor pumps x3

Off - Covert
Electronics - Energy Parasitic
Eng - Cap Regen Matrix
Defense - Augmented Plating
Prop - Fuel Catalyst
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-01-26 09:51:17 UTC
your loki build will die in 15-30 seconds, not enough tank, too many utility mods.

but you have a bigger problem. heavy armor tackle suffers from low speed. i do this often, trust me when i say that speed is everything in hunting for ratters.

Thats why I use a standard helios with sensor damps, mwd and a scram. Cheap, reliable, quick, and most importantly, warps and scans quickly. And if you lose it, you are not out of 600-800mil.

Knoor Shardani
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2014-01-26 11:46:38 UTC
I already discovered that this loki has big problem with keeping tackle on ratter that has 3 heavy neuts on his pve domi :) I didn't have any problems with tanking his drones, they were barely scratching my shields but those neuts were draining me constantly so I was losing tackle more or less for 1 or 2 seconds just before cap booster finished reloading and I could inject cap in and regain tackle.

I kept him for almost a minute but even though he couldn't MJD or warp away during that time he managed to keep aligning and eventually he escaped during those tackleless moments before my backup was able to take mission gate and land on us. I guess 10 more seconds and domi would be pinned down for good and executed but no point of crying over spilled milk. GFs were given, test performed, lesson learnt, good experience gained.

Thanks for your input.