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When Insurance Fee/Payout will be Fixed?
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Denson022
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-01-23 22:43:02 UTC
The Slahser used to cost 80 k ISK before rebalance, now it costs 400K but when you try insure it you pay 9K ISK to receive 40K.

Same for ex-lower tier cruisers/ BC /BS

In terms of insurance the ships are not balanced.

Thinking about new players that dare to try PvP and lose their ships...
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2014-01-24 01:40:57 UTC
This is because lots of players stockpiled MASSIVE amounts of "low tier" ships before they were rebalanced hoping that they would be able to reprocess or self-destruct them for profit.

It might take years before the old stockpiles are depleted.

How did you Veterans start?
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-01-24 01:42:09 UTC
Seriously? You want to insure a frigate?

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#4 - 2014-01-24 01:47:29 UTC
i believe i read some time ago that they have to run a script to update all average prices to make insurances update. For some reason they haven't done it for a long time now. You can see this for example on faction BC killmails where the hulls STILL don't have a cost.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#5 - 2014-01-24 03:07:18 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
i believe i read some time ago that they have to run a script to update all average prices to make insurances update. For some reason they haven't done it for a long time now. You can see this for example on faction BC killmails where the hulls STILL don't have a cost.

Insurance is based on market mineral price (minus X% or something) and is run automatically. There is just a lag time of about a month or two to prevent market and insurance manipulation.

As for Faction BCs not having a price on killmails... I would chalk that up to a glitch.

How did you Veterans start?
Ian Ovaert
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-01-24 08:20:53 UTC
Dominix insurance is around 20 mil and the payout around 70mil.
Hull itself around 200mil now.
Boergrine Saissore
Iron Hills Merchant and Trade
#7 - 2014-02-24 19:41:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Boergrine Saissore
New poster here. I'm kind of upset about my insurance payout for the Astero frigate I lost last night in a wormhole. Is it really fair that an 80 million ISK ship should get only about 367,000 ISK in insurance? I come back from a year long hiatus just to find the latest expansion screwed the insurance up. That payout was from a platinum policy I feel ripped off. I paid more for the policy than what I got for losing the ship.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#8 - 2014-02-24 19:50:28 UTC
Boergrine Saissore wrote:
New poster here. I'm kind of upset about my insurance payout for the Astero frigate I lost last night in a wormhole. Is it really fair that an 80 million ISK ship should get only about 367,000 ISK in insurance? I come back from a year long hiatus just to find the latest expansion screwed the insurance up. That payout was from a platinum policy I feel ripped off. I paid more for the policy than what I got for losing the ship.


I'm going to have to burst your outrage bubble. At no point in the game's history has insurance worked in such a way that you would get full reimbursement for a faction ship. Insurance has always been based on mineral content, and the astero is only worth a few hundred k in minerals. It is not possible for you to pay more for an insurance policy than you would receive from an insurance payout. When you purchased the insurance, it would have clearly stated up front how much each policy cost and what the payout was. In no way whatsoever were you ripped off.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#9 - 2014-02-24 19:56:15 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
This is because lots of players stockpiled MASSIVE amounts of "low tier" ships before they were rebalanced hoping that they would be able to reprocess or self-destruct them for profit.

It might take years before the old stockpiles are depleted.


I don't honestly believe the stockpiles are that high anymore, if they ever were.

At this point I attribute the lack of a correction on this matter to laziness on behalf of CCP.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#10 - 2014-02-24 19:58:37 UTC
Batelle wrote:
It is not possible for you to pay more for an insurance policy than you would receive from an insurance payout.


Well. In the technical sense it's not.

If someone keeps re-insuring their love boat over and over and never losing it, it's not difficult to end up paying more out in premiums than you collect on eventual loss. Sadly, I am quite certain that there are players that do this regularly.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#11 - 2014-02-25 02:14:01 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
i believe i read some time ago that they have to run a script to update all average prices to make insurances update. For some reason they haven't done it for a long time now. You can see this for example on faction BC killmails where the hulls STILL don't have a cost.

Insurance is based on market mineral price (minus X% or something) and is run automatically. There is just a lag time of about a month or two to prevent market and insurance manipulation.

As for Faction BCs not having a price on killmails... I would chalk that up to a glitch.


It's market mineral price on minerals but not those listed under extra materials. Which is a big part of why the payout is so low on rebalanced ships.

Having said that, the stockpiles are still huge. Very few BSs are worth making and Cyclones.... let's not talk about Cyclones. It makes my wallet hurt.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#12 - 2014-02-25 02:40:25 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
This is because lots of players stockpiled MASSIVE amounts of "low tier" ships before they were rebalanced hoping that they would be able to reprocess or self-destruct them for profit.

It might take years before the old stockpiles are depleted.


I don't honestly believe the stockpiles are that high anymore, if they ever were.

At this point I attribute the lack of a correction on this matter to laziness on behalf of CCP.

Maybe... but there was an interesting bit of info that was presented at the Economic Lecture during FanFest 2013. Apparently there are still MASSIVE stockpiles of certain miscellaneous building goods that date back to 2003-2004 (?) when players stockpiled them before some sort of industrial rebalance. Prices have never recovered since and the stockpiles are still there.

So there is precedent for this situation. It's not the first time players have dumped HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of ISK into mere speculation (so much for "the market behaves rationally" mantra).

How did you Veterans start?
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#13 - 2014-02-25 04:15:36 UTC
Boergrine Saissore wrote:
New poster here. I'm kind of upset about my insurance payout for the Astero frigate I lost last night in a wormhole. Is it really fair that an 80 million ISK ship should get only about 367,000 ISK in insurance? I come back from a year long hiatus just to find the latest expansion screwed the insurance up. That payout was from a platinum policy I feel ripped off. I paid more for the policy than what I got for losing the ship.


Sunk cost fallacy.

Remember this because it's the only thing that matters: Insurance pays out more then you pay in. Period. If an insured ship explodes, you will make a profit from the insurance. The ratio between hull price and payout is irrelevant. This means always insure your pvp ships. It's free money.

---

To OP: as mentioned already the payout is based on the minerals required to make the hull. It's already dynamically adjusted based on market prices, so what you're asking for already exists. The alternative is to base the payout on market costs, which are easily manipulated. The system may not be perfect, but it's not harmful, and I support leaving it alone.

Overhaul Dscan!
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#14 - 2014-02-25 06:16:16 UTC
Boergrine Saissore wrote:
New poster here. I'm kind of upset about my insurance payout for the Astero frigate I lost last night in a wormhole. Is it really fair that an 80 million ISK ship should get only about 367,000 ISK in insurance? I come back from a year long hiatus just to find the latest expansion screwed the insurance up. That payout was from a platinum policy I feel ripped off. I paid more for the policy than what I got for losing the ship.


Pirates are t1 ships. I know some think they are special but they are born from a plain ole t1 blueprint when its all stripped away. So what you'd pay for say a condor insurance setup is the same as astero. Give or take a few minerals, cba to tear about bp's for mineral breakdown lol.

Protip: this would work up the chain. One day if you want a nestor as well.....it too is a t1 bs at the end of the day based on bpc.



The price of your ship is (well was) mostly the price of the bpc. That is player determined and not in the mineral to insurance calc. As I'd imagine 0.0, especially gurista peeps, would market run worms and rattlesnake like its cool to insurance fraud after patch hit. SD 3 rattlers bought pre change at a market boosted +500 mil....I'd do it for 1.5 billion profit tbh.
Vartan Sarkisian
Lucifer's Hammer
A Band Apart.
#15 - 2014-02-25 12:34:19 UTC
Surely Insurance should be based on the price you pay for something. If I had an accident in my car they dont pay out on the insurance based on the amount of materials it took to make, it is based on the value of the car.

Same in EvE it should be based on a realistic base price of the ship. currently you get a certain amount paid back even if not insured, that should be scrapped too.

No insurance, no payout and the other options are bands of the value of the ship based on a realistic base price, such as 10%, 20% 30% and so on to a total value of 70%. As long as the base price is monitored and kept realistic then they wont really lose out. and CCP still get their isk sink.