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Peace between the Empire and the Republic, a Moderate viewpoint

Author
Matar Ronin
#241 - 2014-01-21 20:03:45 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:


In the case of a Republican citizen in Amarr space helping an Ammarian get to his inheritance in Republican space? It's not illegal, though I'd be hard-pressed to see why that would happen. There aren't many Amarrians working the land out there for Matari masters to feel they deserve to have it.
You initially said you were charged with aiding and abetting a felon. Please answer the question I put to you, what chance do you give to a Minmatar Republic citizen charged with aiding and abetting a felon in the amarr empire?

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#242 - 2014-01-21 20:14:05 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:


In the case of a Republican citizen in Amarr space helping an Ammarian get to his inheritance in Republican space? It's not illegal, though I'd be hard-pressed to see why that would happen. There aren't many Amarrians working the land out there for Matari masters to feel they deserve to have it.
You initially said you were charged with aiding and abetting a felon. Please answer the question I put to you, what chance do you give to a Minmatar Republic citizen charged with aiding and abetting a felon in the amarr empire?


Oh, it depends on the jurisdiction. In the Empire, it's referred to as Acting as a Willful Accomplice to a Crime and is generally punishable by one quarter up to the full jail sentence of the felon you helped. It means that, say, you help someone commit a murder, you can be charged as an accomplice and sentenced to the precise same punishment. If, for instance, you help someone committing a rather minor crime, such as defacing public property, and you helped by acting as a lookout, you would probably receive a week (defacing public property is a month-long jail term in most cases). It depends, and it's generally at the judge's discretion.

We're also assuming this is a citizen of the Minmatar Republic who is permitted to be in the Amarr Empire legally. If you engage in factional warfare or something similar, you could be in the Empire illegally. That's another good reason to avoid factional warfare. If I'd been destroying Matari vessels or capturing them illegally for the slave trade, there's a very good possibility that I'd never be able to move freely through the Republic again.

The Pax Amarria, though, recognized the Minmatar Republic as a sovereign empire and thus Republican citizens are Republican citizens according to law, not renegade slaves. Contrary to popular belief, you may be looked at strangely in the Empire if you're fresh out of Pator tech school, but you won't be molested by local authorities in most cases.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#243 - 2014-01-21 20:25:19 UTC
Also, I apologize, but to add on to what Pieter said, it's not impossible to get a pass to the surface legally if you know which channels to go through. It's something you have to pay lawyers for. Lots of lawyers, but it can be done if it's important in your work (such as with trade negotation with the surface and the like).

In the Minmatar Republic specifically, I am classed as a spiritual advisor, which are permitted to come to the surface even as capsuleers, for the purposes of seeing to their peoples' spiritual health. That means I do have to come with my credentials in hand and state my business clearly. I am not permitted to engage in commerce on the planet except to buy myself food and the like (I don't have a trade certificate for the surface), nor am I in any circumstances to walk around armed (at my request, local law enforcement provides an armed escort).

There's a lot of other ins and outs, but like I said, I'm not engaged in factional warfare and I'm not in the habit of telling Matari people to return to the Empire as slaves. As far as the Republic goes, I act as a sort of unifying head and arbiter between the various Matari churches to our faith operating inside the Republic and also as the ultimate spiritual authority for those of our faith out here who need our religious services. I absolutely do not have any legal authority over my parishioners, thus they are still at the mercy of their local governments (which have, in fairness, not been terrible hosts especially as of late).

I know it seems like I should be strung up the second I step foot on the surface. In fact, I'd say it shocks your average Amarrian more than your average Matari that I'm permitted to be anywhere near Republican space. The fact is, it's a lot more civilized than they think, and if you're willing to partake in the culture in Matari space, people will give you all the time in the world to preach the faith.

Sometimes, I think the only reason there is a Minmatar Republic at all is because we, as Amarrians, didn't think we could learn anything from them. In some ways, it is the universal constant of ministry: treat people like people and they'll almost always give you their ear if you have something to say.

Or, as my father likes to tell me, "Don't wear your crown to town!"

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#244 - 2014-01-21 20:39:21 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
treat people like people and they'll almost always give you their ear if you have something to say.


Tell that to Abel Jarek.

Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade

Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#245 - 2014-01-21 20:45:48 UTC
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:
treat people like people and they'll almost always give you their ear if you have something to say.


Tell that to Abel Jarek.


When I see him, I will.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#246 - 2014-01-21 20:54:55 UTC
It is usually rather difficult to get to see a martyr.

Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade

Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family

N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#247 - 2014-01-21 21:25:30 UTC  |  Edited by: N'maro Makari
Katy Moore wrote:
N'maro Makari wrote:

It seems to me that there are significant gaps in your knowledge, and those gaps have influenced your predictions.
You radically overestimate internal conflict within the Republic, and distort how we view our cousins.
We are a team, a team of unique, indomitable and irreplaceable identities, who work together to ensure each other's survival and prosperity.


That is not how the Scope News agency, amongst other news agencies, portrays things. Gallente and Minmatar news agencies, not the Amarr Certified News, who you might expect to portray the Republic in as negative a light as they can.

Instead, they report on incidents such as a riot at a Krusual Tribe funeral, where Brutor Tribe protestors claimed the Krusual were not following the right traditions. The riot ended with 17 more people requiring funerals.

As well as more recent, more well known events, such as the treatment of Starkmanir, Nefantar, and recent arrivals to the Republic.


The issue is not the news but how you have interpreted it and very much cherry-picked. Of course, you also forget that news rarely reports on good news. A tragedy sells far better.

Family members fall out, sometimes tragically. As a matter of fact, if tragedy in the news were truly the indicator for where a society is heading, the Minmatar would have long since ceased to be.

Yet for all the prophecy of civil war, the Republic has only ever been moving away from that prospect, especially since 108. The lost tribes rejoined their people, the Angel Cartel were pushed out of Skarkon, a Tribal Assembly was promised, the Tribal Assembly convened and now, today for the first time in a long time, the Republic has a clear vision and direction, and clear, defined structure.

And regarding the treatment of the Starmanir and Nefantar, I assume you're referring to those new tribes that have recently had their say in the new political order? With the express and direct backing of their peers in the other 5?

There are problems, we will deal with them in time, but that list of problems is one that has now become significantly shorter and solutions are becoming viable. It will be a rough road, but this notion that we will degenerate into a bloody civil war is totally unfounded.

The Amarr, and I do not mean this as a slur or insult, have been predicting the Republic's imminent demise every year since its inception. Perhaps it is time to re-examine your methods of prediction, because they are self-evidently flawed.

**Vherokior **

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#248 - 2014-01-21 23:42:17 UTC
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:

It is usually rather difficult to get to see a martyr.


It really isn't that difficult, when you think about it. It's just not the sort of trip that has a return ticket.

N'maro Makari wrote:
Katy Moore wrote:
N'maro Makari wrote:

It seems to me that there are significant gaps in your knowledge, and those gaps have influenced your predictions.
You radically overestimate internal conflict within the Republic, and distort how we view our cousins.
We are a team, a team of unique, indomitable and irreplaceable identities, who work together to ensure each other's survival and prosperity.


That is not how the Scope News agency, amongst other news agencies, portrays things. Gallente and Minmatar news agencies, not the Amarr Certified News, who you might expect to portray the Republic in as negative a light as they can.

Instead, they report on incidents such as a riot at a Krusual Tribe funeral, where Brutor Tribe protestors claimed the Krusual were not following the right traditions. The riot ended with 17 more people requiring funerals.

As well as more recent, more well known events, such as the treatment of Starkmanir, Nefantar, and recent arrivals to the Republic.


The issue is not the news but how you have interpreted it and very much cherry-picked. Of course, you also forget that news rarely reports on good news. A tragedy sells far better.

Family members fall out, sometimes tragically. As a matter of fact, if tragedy in the news were truly the indicator for where a society is heading, the Minmatar would have long since ceased to be.

Yet for all the prophecy of civil war, the Republic has only ever been moving away from that prospect, especially since 108. The lost tribes rejoined their people, the Angel Cartel were pushed out of Skarkon, a Tribal Assembly was promised, the Tribal Assembly convened and now, today for the first time in a long time, the Republic has a clear vision and direction, and clear, defined structure.

And regarding the treatment of the Starmanir and Nefantar, I assume you're referring to those new tribes that have recently had their say in the new political order? With the express and direct backing of their peers in the other 5?

There are problems, we will deal with them in time, but that list of problems is one that has now become significantly shorter and solutions are becoming viable. It will be a rough road, but this notion that we will degenerate into a bloody civil war is totally unfounded.

The Amarr, and I do not mean this as a slur or insult, have been predicting the Republic's imminent demise every year since its inception. Perhaps it is time to re-examine your methods of prediction, because they are self-evidently flawed.


You have to remember we see everything in the long term. My baseline family will still probably see their four-hundredth birthdays. To whit, I have heard Amarrians before saying that Republic would cave in without Gallente support, but that's not backed up in the Pax Amarria, which says it will probably survive for a long time and that we simply have to minister effectively in the meantime.

I think the more prevalent idea is that a civil war will erupt and reunification is going to mean re-intensifying the war with the Empire. It's the usual fare, and not just among the Republic, that times of internal dispute can be readily solved with an external threat. If you don't have one, you can make one.

Those Amarrians who actually thought the Republic would somehow crumble weren't really using a broad perspective. Even without the Gallente, those Matari who left to form the Republic are the sort who didn't precisely have Holders that gave them what they needed. There's a reason that the Republicans seem to be able to subsist on scraps and thrive with machines held together with spit and wire; sometimes they were scrounging for food to eat in their conditions. Slaves with more decent Holders simply didn't leave the Empire. There wasn't a reason to go and live in those conditions if you were eating well and receiving proper education.

So those that formed the Republic had two things in common, they were survivalists of some nature or another and they had every logical reason to hate the Amarr Empire. Coupled with the support they received from the Gallente, they did just fine.

I think the future, especially in the long term, is what concerns most Amarrians. With the war limited, so is the damage, but the Elder Fleet really didn't help matters in terms of inspiring our confidence in the continuation of the Pax Amarria, even if it was turned back. Most Amarrians see the Elder Fleet and Shakor being elected as intrinsically linked. Most Amarrians also therefore figure that any power struggles are going to end up in Amarrian space. Like weather, they just build the defenses and wait for rain, because as far as they're concerned, it's coming. It's a matter of when and how bad it will be.

I'm a bit of a glass-half-full man, and I see the upside that Pieter mentioned. It's entirely possible to sign peace treaties with several of the tribes and, if they are honored, we can reduce the eventual damage. Having several individual leaders may make the government less inherently stable, but it's better than having to try to negotiate with a prime minister that has already made his mind up. I think that it's even possible to make enough Matari friends that we'll avoid Amarrian involvement altogether.

My parents both disagree, but it's worth trying. Things may work out better in the end because of the shift in government.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#249 - 2014-01-22 00:58:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Katherine Devonshire
Constantin Baracca wrote:
I'm a bit of a glass-half-full man, and I see the upside that Pieter mentioned. It's entirely possible to sign peace treaties with several of the tribes and, if they are honored, we can reduce the eventual damage. Having several individual leaders may make the government less inherently stable, but it's better than having to try to negotiate with a prime minister that has already made his mind up. I think that it's even possible to make enough Matari friends that we'll avoid Amarrian involvement altogether.


I concur. Midular is far more diplomatic, reasonable and essentially civilized than Shakor seems to be. Much like Heth, I believe that Shakor is little more than a warmonger who has long outlived his utility (if he ever had any). For many years, centuries even, hating the Amarr was the one certain means of unifying the many tribes into any sort of cohesive direction - but that direction always led to war & bloodshed, which is hardly what any sane person could call real progress.

In recent times, however, Midular (and her predecessor) have shown that there can be unity in peace as well. Likewise, this idea of diplomatically working with the tribes as individual mini-nations rather than trying to deal with the brick wall of Shakor's belligerent obstinance sounds quite promising indeed.

To put it metaphorically, when the Empire was a more warlike entity we used the strategem of "divide and conquer" in battle. Now that we have embraced the Pax Amarria I believe that same concept can be used to win at peace as well. If we can negotiate equitable terms & treaties with the more rational elements of the Republic, such as Midular and her intelligent kin, then eventually the more destructive elements will be pressured to fall into line from within.

Thus I fully support Midular, as I did her predecessor. I pray for her long life and safety, that she may help her people finally achieve the peace that has so long been overdue her people.
Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#250 - 2014-01-22 08:10:56 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:

It is usually rather difficult to get to see a martyr.


It really isn't that difficult, when you think about it. It's just not the sort of trip that has a return ticket.



Then, I trust you can see why I find your protestations that we can all get along to be a little on the hollow side, given the events that occurred four and a half years ago?

Pick up a weapon and defend Amarr and use this cursed immortality as a weapon for God. Or failing that, start building ships to help defend Amarr and help improve Amarr's economy. Do something to actually make peace rather than just an endless line of new threats.

Pretending that we can live in peace through negotiations after the last half decade just makes you look like a fool. The Pax Amarr will not be achieved by weakness and positive sentiment, it will be only be achieved by a strong Amarr that cannot be attacked.

And while you are at it, you might want to tone down the stories of successful conversion. Whether or not they are true, they are not helpful. You do realize that your track record of the last months has been to create more enemies for Amarr, no?

Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade

Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family

Zenito
Lekhantsi Salvage Depot
#251 - 2014-01-22 12:22:59 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Anyone looking to do a deal with 'The Republic' as a whole is missing the opportunity that a de-centralised power structure brings. If you find the Brutor too martial, the Krusual too shifty etc, etc etc - simply do a deal with a tribe you can find common ground with.

If the deals you offer bring mutual advantage then you won't have to worry about selling them to 'The Council' as the tribe benefiting will do that for you! A wholly centralised power structure is something I find unnatural and dangerous. They make me nervous - as no one human being has been found worthy of carrying ultimate power, without checks and balances.

Far better to have a de-centralised structure. A collection of interests. Something for everyone.


Well said, Tuulinen. My respect also goes to Father Baracca and Lady Devonshire, who appear to have the same good common sense.

I would call upon other Matari to see it too. You've seen the reactions that Shakor provokes - what chance to any of us have of peace with him still around? Do away with this redundant office of Sanmatar. Put our Tribes first and work together in a confederation of Tribal States, each with it's own territories and laws. We can build our own bridges, through diplomacy and trade, with whoever we wish. This is the path to prosperity and peace.

Zenitoka Katanga

Clan Chieftain

"A fair bargain leaves both sides unhappy."

Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#252 - 2014-01-22 12:37:12 UTC
Zenito wrote:

I would call upon other Matari to see it too. You've seen the reactions that Shakor provokes - what chance to any of us have of peace with him still around? Do away with this redundant office of Sanmatar. Put our Tribes first and work together in a confederation of Tribal States, each with it's own territories and laws. We can build our own bridges, through diplomacy and trade, with whoever we wish. This is the path to prosperity and peace.


That is what has already happened if only you would read the writing.

The Sanmatar is a position of no power, outside the tribes to mediate should there be disagreements amongst the Tribes. Such it was and such it always will be.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

Zenito
Lekhantsi Salvage Depot
#253 - 2014-01-22 12:56:21 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
That is what has already happened if only you would read the writing.


Nothing of what I said has already happened.

Zenito wrote:
Do away with this redundant office of Sanmatar. Put our Tribes first and work together in a confederation of Tribal States, each with it's own territories and laws.


The office of Sanmatar still exists, powerless as it may be. The incumbent still generates animosity within and without the Tribes. I'm calling for the office to be abolished.

Only one Tribe has a sovereign state with it's own territories and laws. I'm calling for all Tribes to enjoy the autonomy of the Thukker.

Zenitoka Katanga

Clan Chieftain

"A fair bargain leaves both sides unhappy."

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#254 - 2014-01-22 14:09:50 UTC
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:

It is usually rather difficult to get to see a martyr.


It really isn't that difficult, when you think about it. It's just not the sort of trip that has a return ticket.



Then, I trust you can see why I find your protestations that we can all get along to be a little on the hollow side, given the events that occurred four and a half years ago?

Pick up a weapon and defend Amarr and use this cursed immortality as a weapon for God. Or failing that, start building ships to help defend Amarr and help improve Amarr's economy. Do something to actually make peace rather than just an endless line of new threats.

Pretending that we can live in peace through negotiations after the last half decade just makes you look like a fool. The Pax Amarr will not be achieved by weakness and positive sentiment, it will be only be achieved by a strong Amarr that cannot be attacked.

And while you are at it, you might want to tone down the stories of successful conversion. Whether or not they are true, they are not helpful. You do realize that your track record of the last months has been to create more enemies for Amarr, no?


Have they been? I think most of the people who've enjoined you through protestations are already shooting at you in the warzone. Firing salvos on them in that warzone haven't taught any Matari not to attack us, it's simply given us an out-of-the-way forum to do it in. I may not be completely dismissive of your efforts out there, but mostly along the same lines that the legislated warfare in the Caldari and Gallente territories is necessary. It would be better if there was a political solution.

We can live together peacefully. For God's sakes, we did just fine during Karin Midular's reign and, if anything, I think the fact that every Matari on the forum isn't trying to crucify me should justify their ability to reason. Even those who don't like me aren't actively calling for my head or expulsion from tribal lands. As much as we've sometimes been taught otherwise, most Matari are good people who are truly (and sometimes legitimately) afraid that some element of the Empire will come and re-enslave them. I think it's been good that we've had so many Amarr come out to respect the Pax Amarria, despite the few setbacks during Shakor's administration.

If there is one thing I would posit, though, I would say I've enjoined less enemies against us, and softened hard hearts against us, by honest and peaceful dialogue than by shooting them. Yes, I don't make any bones about what I do; I'm a bishop and a cleric whose job it is to help existing believers in Matari space and to preach the wisdom of God to non-believers. Yes, it does sometimes meet with success. What you don't hear is how I send them back to the Empire in chains once they are converted, because I don't. It makes a difference, especially out here in tribal lands. While there are conservative elements that might actively persecute believers in Matari space, that's become a lot less of an issue over the years. What they're concerned about are loyalists who are calling for the Republic to submit to the Empire, which, barring whether or not it should happen, simply isn't going to. Neither the Empire nor the Republic are going anywhere or losing anything.

The tribes can now manage their own affairs, and the position of Shakor is much weaker than those of the tribal chiefs. We have a chance to stop this, finally, so that we can concentrate on the more virulent (if less numerous) Sansha and Sabik problems. Imagine what we could do if we worked together, for once. We could make Stain a high-security bastion of peace if we could focus our military on the problem. We could finally begin to piece together the research we have on Sleeper and Jove technology.

I've absolutely no intention of taking up arms against the Republic, especially right now. The situation doesn't require any more guns right now, least of not from priests like myself. It would be a complete slap to the face of Abel Jarek, and all that he stood for and died for, if I decided his cause was a waste.

We need some sort of force out there in the warzone; we don't have a choice but to be there. But that doesn't mean we will find any end to the violence by engaging the Matari there. There is an end to be had, though. Give me a chance in that regard, or at the very least have a bit of faith.

If I did die tomorrow at the hands of some Republican assassin, I still wouldn't want my work to die with me. I wouldn't want this dialogue to disappear and for people to point at my name as a warning that the only teaching we should do should be with our lasers.

I know you've very little reason to believe that God will provide us the instruments of peace when you are surrounded by war, but give the Matari a chance. At the very least, if I really have made enemies in the Republic this way prepared to strike me down, let them come for me. If I died for this cause, I think it would have been worth dying for.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#255 - 2014-01-22 18:19:44 UTC
We did not do fine in Midular's reign.

In Midular's reign the Matari attacked us repeatedly with covert naval elements.

In Midular's reign the Matari secretly built the fleet that died at Mekhios.

In Midular's reign the Matari spent every second preparing for their next chance to hurt us.

We are just lucky that Shakor is an impatient idiot and that with his takeover they jumped the gun, attacking before they were ready. Otherwise many more Amarrians would be dead because we trusted in a political solution with the Matari state.

Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade

Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#256 - 2014-01-22 19:55:19 UTC
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:


Pretending that we can live in peace through negotiations after the last half decade just makes you look like a fool.


Not much more than enlisting in the 24th Crusade... no ?
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#257 - 2014-01-23 00:19:18 UTC
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:
We did not do fine in Midular's reign.

In Midular's reign the Matari attacked us repeatedly with covert naval elements.

In Midular's reign the Matari secretly built the fleet that died at Mekhios.

In Midular's reign the Matari spent every second preparing for their next chance to hurt us.

We are just lucky that Shakor is an impatient idiot and that with his takeover they jumped the gun, attacking before they were ready. Otherwise many more Amarrians would be dead because we trusted in a political solution with the Matari state.


Let's not forget that Midular was mightily angry at Shakor for his arrogance and she fired Keitan Yun for his hand in the affair. We think that Shakor rose to power on the back of his success, but he was the only standing candidate and turnout for the election was low, if I recall. It's also fair to say that the attack on CONCORD and on the Amarr Empire, while it accomplished some of their objectives, ended in absolute disaster for the Matari people as a whole. It proved decently useful for Shakor, but they lost so much. So many resources wasted against us and so many lives lost for pyrrhic gains. Small wonder so many of us associate Shakor with foul things. In the end, I wouldn't blame the entirety of the Republic, and all Matari people, for the attack. Most of them were just as surprised as we were.

My grandfather and the scion of my family died during the initial attack, as he was in Sarum space at the time. My grandmother and the rest of my family took even our small security fleet to rendezvous with the defense fleet in Mekhios. They fought there with the Empress.

I remember not initially understanding why the Empress did not follow the Elder Fleet into the Republic and take planets, but later it began to make sense. Just because your enemies do something does not make it right, and I think I am proud to be an Amarrian because of that day. We had an unstoppable superweapon at our disposal, the enemy was on the run, yet still the Pax Amarria held. It held, because we are better than Meleatu Shakor, and we stayed true to that peace. It could have been worse. We could have made the Republic suffer as we had suffered and been completely justified in doing so. We didn't. I think that's something we can hold our heads high over. When everyone was screaming for blood, we showed discipline. Maybe it will be understood by all one day for what it was.

Either way, I won't blame the entirety of the Matari for the Elder Fleet. To do so would be to say that men and women will all suffer guilt by association, but we know that righteousness lives in the individual to contribute meaningfully to the whole of society. I would much rather give them the chance, then suffer for it one day, than to believe men are beyond the reach of God and suffer for it every day.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#258 - 2014-01-23 17:55:15 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:


Pretending that we can live in peace through negotiations after the last half decade just makes you look like a fool.


Not much more than enlisting in the 24th Crusade... no ?


The Matari cannot be allowed the luxury of being able to build another secret invasion fleet.

This war is not ideal, we should be mobilizing on a much larger scale, but so long as we do our part it does provide a roughly equal drain on both Empires resources.

Equal favors us far more than the Matari.

Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade

Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#259 - 2014-01-23 20:49:55 UTC
This conveniently overlooks crucial facts sir. The Matari built their invasion fleet with Gallentean funds, which is unlikely to happen again.

They will have to solely rely on their own fundings. And if what you say is true on their capacity to sustain 'equal drains', then the Empire shall logically win in the end at that game - building fleets...
Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#260 - 2014-01-24 05:49:59 UTC
Only if we are actively participating in military build up, rather than letting the Matari steal a march on us while talking of peace.

In the world Constantin seems to wish for, we would be blindsided yet again.

Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade

Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family