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CSM8 January Summit Schedule

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CCP Dolan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2014-01-20 19:36:55 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Leeloo
Greetings Sports Fans,

Here is the Schedule for the CSM8 January Summit that is happening this January 22nd thru the 24th. As many of you will notice, quite a few of our sessions have been covered by the NDA. Many of these will be un-NDA'd in the very near future, and will continue to be revealed as the subjects of those discussions are announced by CCP (typically in a Dev Blog or forum post).

Feel free to post in this thread if you have any questions or concerns.

CCP Dolan | Community Representative

Twitter: @CCPDolan

Gooby pls

Vance Armistice
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2014-01-20 19:49:12 UTC
CCP Dolan,

I have a concern:

My concern is that you don't get enough recognition for being the cool guy that you are. Excellent work in the past year, and I hope there is no scarring from the paint balls.

Keep up the good work
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#3 - 2014-01-20 19:50:17 UTC
If those NDA'd sessions aren't about Russian cold-war era submarines, I will be very disappointed

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

Mangala Solaris
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#4 - 2014-01-20 19:50:39 UTC
Oh hey Golf.

I havent played over the winter, I'll be rusty.
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
The Dead Parrots
#5 - 2014-01-20 19:51:44 UTC
Earlier clarity on game changing mechanics, like the ESS and the MSI, are needed to make aware to the bulk of the player base much earlier than 1 month before release.

It is also a concern that pushing forward will cause many things that need to be fixed or that need further iteration, like POSes and the state of exploration, to be left behind for the sale of progress.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#6 - 2014-01-20 19:54:34 UTC
Grr NDA

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

BAJRAN BALI
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2014-01-20 20:00:07 UTC
I'm so running for CSM if I get to golf with CCP!

YouTube: kds119 Twitter: @realkds119 Blog: derptw.blogspot.com

Dariusz Betonowy
Doomheim
#8 - 2014-01-20 20:03:48 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Earlier clarity on game changing mechanics, like the ESS and the MSI, are needed to make aware to the bulk of the player base much earlier than 1 month before release.

It is also a concern that pushing forward will cause many things that need to be fixed or that need further iteration, like POSes and the state of exploration, to be left behind for the sale of progress.

Agreed. The ESS does not only hurt bug nullsec cartels, it also hurts small renters, using rat bounty payments to plex their accounts and fund whatever flavor of PVP they wish to take part in. This feature needs more consideration and definitely more feedback from its developers.
IMO, CCP already pushes the "big things" forward., but the problem is how to communicate these major changes without haviing the poor monument in Jita suffer the capsuleers' wrath...
CCP Dolan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#9 - 2014-01-20 20:04:37 UTC
BAJRAN BALI wrote:
I'm so running for CSM if I get to golf with CCP!


In my experience, the Alliance Tournament is the way too go for CCP golfing opportunities. Actually, I might do an unofficial Golf with CCP outing for Fanfest, that sounds pretty cool.

CCP Dolan | Community Representative

Twitter: @CCPDolan

Gooby pls

CCP Dolan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#10 - 2014-01-20 20:10:29 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Dolan
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Earlier clarity on game changing mechanics, like the ESS and the MSI, are needed to make aware to the bulk of the player base much earlier than 1 month before release.

It is also a concern that pushing forward will cause many things that need to be fixed or that need further iteration, like POSes and the state of exploration, to be left behind for the sale of progress.


Ultimately, our game development teams decide when it is appropriate to share information with the playerbase, just like they decide when to share it with the CSM, or even CCP at large. The CSM can certainly advocate for earlier release of information, but ultimately the call is up to our development teams as too when an idea is ready to show the public.

CCP Dolan | Community Representative

Twitter: @CCPDolan

Gooby pls

BAJRAN BALI
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2014-01-20 20:21:44 UTC
CCP Dolan wrote:
Actually, I might do an unofficial Golf with CCP outing for Fanfest, that sounds pretty cool.


GRR!!! Should have gone to Fanfest instead of Eve Vegas Ugh If your in Vegas next year we'll haft to get together.

YouTube: kds119 Twitter: @realkds119 Blog: derptw.blogspot.com

Liner Xiandra
Sparks Inc
#12 - 2014-01-20 20:25:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Liner Xiandra
I can appreciate things being covered with an NDA, but this looks fairly silly.
- possible Sov changes
- possible Industry changes
- Sth sth stargate building
- Valkeryie integration
- Dust 514 / EVE links

What's so special that you can't apply these labels to Alpha/Beta/Omega?
That way at least we can poke some more CSM members with some more travel notes.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#13 - 2014-01-20 20:47:56 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
CCP Dolan wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Earlier clarity on game changing mechanics, like the ESS and the MSI, are needed to make aware to the bulk of the player base much earlier than 1 month before release.

It is also a concern that pushing forward will cause many things that need to be fixed or that need further iteration, like POSes and the state of exploration, to be left behind for the sale of progress.


Ultimately, our game development teams decide when it is appropriate to share information with the playerbase, just like they decide when to share it with the CSM, or even CCP at large. The CSM can certainly advocate for earlier release of information, but ultimately the call is up to our development teams as too when an idea is ready to show the public.


I understand that. Though should that be the case?

I would advocate that future ideas are vetted in the features and ideas form before its set in stone.

Edit: what's this about in diana Jones and the temple of poon?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Callic Veratar
#14 - 2014-01-20 21:10:26 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
CCP Dolan wrote:
Ultimately, our game development teams decide when it is appropriate to share information with the playerbase, just like they decide when to share it with the CSM, or even CCP at large. The CSM can certainly advocate for earlier release of information, but ultimately the call is up to our development teams as too when an idea is ready to show the public.


I understand that. Though should that be the case?

I would advocate that future ideas are vetted in the features and ideas form before its set in stone.

It seems like a neat idea to allow all the ideas to be vetted in F&I from a rational point of view, however a person is rational. When it comes to the full player base, it's panicky, reactionary, and very resistant to change (good or bad).

Going live with a half baked idea searching for feedback will cause way more trouble that it's worth. (Just as going live with a half baked idea as the anchor of a release proved to be a bad idea.)
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#15 - 2014-01-20 21:28:01 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
CCP Dolan wrote:
Ultimately, our game development teams decide when it is appropriate to share information with the playerbase, just like they decide when to share it with the CSM, or even CCP at large. The CSM can certainly advocate for earlier release of information, but ultimately the call is up to our development teams as too when an idea is ready to show the public.


I understand that. Though should that be the case?

I would advocate that future ideas are vetted in the features and ideas form before its set in stone.

It seems like a neat idea to allow all the ideas to be vetted in F&I from a rational point of view, however a person is rational. When it comes to the full player base, it's panicky, reactionary, and very resistant to change (good or bad).

Going live with a half baked idea searching for feedback will cause way more trouble that it's worth. (Just as going live with a half baked idea as the anchor of a release proved to be a bad idea.)


i would do it like this.

you have a concept.

you develop it with your team once you are happy with it you run it by the csm once its been vetted by the csm before you start operational work on it you then post said idea on F&D form to see what the players think.

This IMO this is what Fozzie and rise do constantly. though it seems they are the only ones who follow this design concept.

Developers can choose to not go this way as it does slow down development and take the chance that thier idea is a hit or miss.

though i am under the impression that wasted development time is a bad thing and would prefer the community involvelement before the idea gets worked on by programers and artists.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
The Dead Parrots
#16 - 2014-01-20 23:27:19 UTC
CCP Dolan wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Earlier clarity on game changing mechanics, like the ESS and the MSI, are needed to make aware to the bulk of the player base much earlier than 1 month before release.

It is also a concern that pushing forward will cause many things that need to be fixed or that need further iteration, like POSes and the state of exploration, to be left behind for the sale of progress.


Ultimately, our game development teams decide when it is appropriate to share information with the playerbase, just like they decide when to share it with the CSM, or even CCP at large. The CSM can certainly advocate for earlier release of information, but ultimately the call is up to our development teams as too when an idea is ready to show the public.

A fully fleshed out idea is not necessarily needed to bring productive feedback from the players.

With the Nestor in mind for this example:
A thread could have been posted about what would players like to see in the SOE battleship, and the hundreds of pages of feedback the current thread has, many proposals for a different concept, would be in a pre-thread before the concept is released.
This would allow for proper theroy-crafting of the concept release, before the final draft.

The Mobile Structure Thread is a perfect example on how to pre-condition players to changes, it gives players an opprutinity to see what other players want and everyone knows that a DEV is reading that thread; as they were the one who created it. Making every idea in that thread a potential.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#17 - 2014-01-21 11:06:08 UTC
What's the point of announcing summit schedule to the public when everything is NDA and basically to every question we will get same response: "NDA"?

I would love to see some update regarding backend and "legacy code" work, I would love to see explanation what is SO hard in introducing simple bug fixes and functionality tweaks (for example d-scan window). Is anybody even working on drones UI ? Any mastermind even tried to tackle overview settings recently? Yeah I know, you have ideas, you talk, nothing is done...

You show those presentations about philosophy of UI design, power points and arrows and bullet points but the truth is Eve UI - while a lot better than when I started to play - is pretty clunky to use. So any chance of getting anything done about it in NEAR future instead of Soon(TM)?

Invalid signature format

Davion Falcon
Those Once Loyal
#18 - 2014-01-22 22:31:27 UTC
Quite the creative way to get around the whole minutes embaressment, just NDA everything.

I commend you on your guile, holding in the best spirit of Eve Online.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. Never forgotten, never forgiven.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#19 - 2014-01-26 13:20:02 UTC
Malc's super quick summit report (before I go sleep for 18 hours).

(1) Iceland is a pretty strange place for sure, and a lot of EVE's idiosyncracies become much more understandable after you go there

(2) CSM 8 has hit it out the park with regards to participation. There wasn't a single session with less than 10 members attending, most had 11-12.

(3) If we were to draw a distinguishing line between the summer summit and this one, then it would be: Summer was "Detail", Winter was "Direction". Not that we didn't do a fair amount of detail stuff, just that the big items were "Direction". Overally I am extremely satisfied that CCP as a whole 'gets it'. Almost all the dev teams we spoke to were on the same page as the CSM on the big issues.

(4) There was very little that CCP put in front of us that we didn't like, and several "Ship it. We want it on Monday." moments.

(5) Grayscale is back. New. Improved. Faster. Tougher. Without pity. He absolutely will not stop until he has nerfed the target.

(6) Wait no that was Terminator 2. Grayscale instead had some amazingly good exchanges with us, and provided one of the best "Ship it!" proposals of the summit.

(7) We're quietly confident that we're going to get minutes out much quicker this time. The new process is much better. CCP Logibro is an ultimate hero savior, btw.

(8) Brennavin is not aniseed flavoured, like everyone will tell you; it's caraway. I like the stuff.

(9) One session was a disappointment to me (and I'm pretty sure to the others), and I think we've still got some work to do with that, because it felt like there was a real lack of empathy of what our requirements and desires and motivations are.

(10) The "work" does not stop with the last meeting of the day. The informal bar sessions with the devs who care to join us and talk even more about EVE are also vital. You don't get minutes of those, though. Suck it up and get elected if you really want to know.

(11) Yes I will answer questions re: the above when I wake up. No I won't break the NDA and yes I'll just make you feel bad if you try and get me to.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#20 - 2014-01-26 14:08:17 UTC
Of course you cannot say which session was so disappointing?

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