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Which carrier to train?
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Tamra Naol
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-01-22 16:41:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tamra Naol
Hi,
I'm currently in the process of training for carriers from scratch. I know this is not optimal - but I'd rather slowboat towards carriers than rush into it by buying a character and then not knowing what to do with it....

I am currently Int/Mem remapped (will be doing a separate remap specifically for Navigation skills), and I will soon have to commit to a carrier. If not a specific carrier, at least a tank type (shield or armor) along with other skills like which EWAR compensation...

The things I'm taking into consideration:
1) Usefulness for WH PvP and PvE
2) Usefulness for sov fights
3) Nighoggur seems crappy
4) People are saying that a Chimera is actually better than an Archon - is this true? If so, why don't more people use them?
5) Archons - could they get nerfed before I get to them?
6) Sentry drone doctrine - likely to be nerfed?
7) Thanatos is claimed to be mediocre because of bad tank?

I very much like the idea of having a large logistics platform at my control. So even if carriers get nerfed overall, I think they will always fulfill this role so I'm OK with that and will continue to train for them.

It's just about choosing which specific carrier. I can't really just ask my mains corp because I might not even stick around with them forever...The associated supercarrier is not that important to me, as I doubt I could ever easily replace such a ship.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#2 - 2014-01-22 17:57:55 UTC
You really need to know what the rest of your corp/fleet will be flying. Since your carrier will be a support platform, if it's the wrong ship, it gimps everyone.

Chimera is a great ship *for shield fleets*.
The reason Archon is by far the favorite, is because most fleets are armor based at this time.
Thanatos can boost both shield and armor, but not long range energy.
Nid is not crappy in the right conditions, it's just way less versatile. I believe it has the worst tank, on paper.. (and also most likely primary, in mixed fleets)

There are many months of skilling that will apply to all carriers.

Drone skills. (Interfacing V, T2 Sentries, Fighters V, RR Drones, ECM Drones)
The nav skills. (JDC V imo)
Remote energy transfer
Remote shield
Remote armor
Logistics
Triage module (T2 is the goal)
T2 Tank and fittings
Implants.
Adv. Spaceship Command V


You could train all of these before you ever make a hard choice on ship/race.
I would recommend an approach at armor tank versions first, as that will fit into *most* large fleet compositions.
With BS III as the pre-req, I don't think ship training is the real issue. You could switch ships in a week. Carrier V is the real commitment, but by then you would know.
Tamra Naol
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2014-01-22 18:02:30 UTC
Well, I'm currently on an Int/Mem remap so I really want all those skills done before I transition into navigation and drone skills.

Are you basically suggesting to train BOTH tanks up? (besides the obligatory cross tank skills like shield management)
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#4 - 2014-01-22 18:11:33 UTC  |  Edited by: RavenPaine
Tamra Naol wrote:
Well, I'm currently on an Int/Mem remap so I really want all those skills done before I transition into navigation and drone skills.

Are you basically suggesting to train BOTH tanks up? (besides the obligatory cross tank skills like shield management)



Basically suggesting Armor primarily, (comps to V) but yes to the obligatory skills.

I can fly all 4 carriers btw. But there is no doubt in my mind that I would only undock a Chimera or Archon, depending on fleet comp.
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#5 - 2014-01-22 18:21:57 UTC
Raven has a well thought out reply.

The best advice you can get (in my opinion) is from the corpmates you have that are already flying capitals. If you are the first to train in your corp then I strongly recommend you understand how your corp will support you. Yes caps are a huge asset, but they can be tackled like any other ship and brought down.

If you are training Cap skills for wormhole stuff I hope your corp is not in a low C class hole or you will be wasting the potential of the ship.
Degnar Oskold
Moira.
#6 - 2014-01-22 19:03:10 UTC
To share my experience, I have an alt training up for carriers. He's going for the Nidh, because:

1) It will be used mostly as a corp logistics platform to move assets around from staging base to staging base in lowsec. This means that the actual combat ability doesn't matter.....
2) It would also be used for repping militia pocos and POSes - which means shield and armour rep both.
Tamra Naol
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2014-01-22 20:03:24 UTC
Noxisia Arkana wrote:
Raven has a well thought out reply.

The best advice you can get (in my opinion) is from the corpmates you have that are already flying capitals. If you are the first to train in your corp then I strongly recommend you understand how your corp will support you. Yes caps are a huge asset, but they can be tackled like any other ship and brought down.

If you are training Cap skills for wormhole stuff I hope your corp is not in a low C class hole or you will be wasting the potential of the ship.


Unfortunately my corp is pretty inactive and I will probably be leaving it, so there's little worthwhile advice to be had from them...

Which is why I'm asking the general public - because I'll probably be forced to make a commitment at least to a tank type before I find a new home. I asked about wormholes because there's a possibility I end up in a wormhole corp at some point ^^.

That being said, I'll probably be taking Raven's advice and going for armor tanking (which basically implies Archon), and just hoping/praying that the armor doctrine stays standard for most of PvP by the time I get into a carrier.
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#8 - 2014-01-22 20:27:00 UTC
Just train all your shield stuff to 3 or 4. You won't be awesome, but you'll be survivable if you HAVE to shield tank. You can always 'inject' the capital shield skills too and then train them if you have to.

Seems premature to create a carrier alt without a group of guys you know. I mean, you can, but the only reason I would ever set foot in a capital is because I like my corp. Not because I think they are any fun to fly.

There are some awesome WH corps out there. I recommend you troll the WH forum - some of the reserved groups are a little more fun to hang with in my opinion. Most of those corps have a Pub Chat so you can get to know them a bit.
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-01-22 21:09:07 UTC
Be careful - there's a reasonable chance that carriers will get rebalanced in the summer, so odd things might happen, like the Nid ending up having the strongest triage tank, or the Thanatos becoming useful.
Tamra Naol
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2014-01-22 22:02:30 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Be careful - there's a reasonable chance that carriers will get rebalanced in the summer, so odd things might happen, like the Nid ending up having the strongest triage tank, or the Thanatos becoming useful.


Yeah this is a really freaking good point.

There's a solid chance that by the time I sit in a carrier - it's not the same boat as the one I was training for because of a rebalance.

I'm just going to have to stretch it out as long as possible and make damn sure that the specific Carrier I pick is basically the last skill I inject. Safest way. At worst case I'm committed to either armor or shield tank, but that should still give me several choices.

I guess it makes it the whole question of "which carrier" kind of pointless at the moment - but I'm happy I at least have it narrowed down to armor.
Devan Reale
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2014-01-22 22:05:31 UTC
I just started a new alt to train for Ishtar then carrier in the long term, and have used my first remap for Perc/Memory to get all of the drone skills knocked out first. Once that's done I plan to remap for Perc/Willpower and grind on the ships, then focus on the support skills. Just my $.02... EveMon really comes in handy if you have the discipline to stick to a long-term plan.
Tamra Naol
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2014-01-22 22:16:40 UTC
Devan Reale wrote:
I just started a new alt to train for Ishtar then carrier in the long term, and have used my first remap for Perc/Memory to get all of the drone skills knocked out first. Once that's done I plan to remap for Perc/Willpower and grind on the ships, then focus on the support skills. Just my $.02... EveMon really comes in handy if you have the discipline to stick to a long-term plan.


I did it backwards because I'm a filthy dirty rotten min/maxer Sad - and I didn't much care if this character was useless for a while.

Remapped for Int/Mem and then blitzed Cybernetics V for the +5 implants ASAP. (and figuring I'd want Cybernetics V anyways for omega implants and/or specific hardwirings).

and yea, evemon rules Cool
Devan Reale
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2014-01-22 22:21:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Devan Reale
Tamra Naol wrote:
Devan Reale wrote:
I just started a new alt to train for Ishtar then carrier in the long term, and have used my first remap for Perc/Memory to get all of the drone skills knocked out first. Once that's done I plan to remap for Perc/Willpower and grind on the ships, then focus on the support skills. Just my $.02... EveMon really comes in handy if you have the discipline to stick to a long-term plan.


I did it backwards because I'm a filthy dirty rotten min/maxer Sad - and I didn't much care if this character was useless for a while.

Remapped for Int/Mem and then blitzed Cybernetics V for the +5 implants ASAP. (and figuring I'd want Cybernetics V anyways for omega implants and/or specific hardwirings).

and yea, evemon rules Cool


That's fine, too... :) I just thought to get the useful stuff out of the way first on this alt; I typically Perc/Willpower for ships and guns, then spread out to support skills, but figured with drones I'd get a lot of bang for the buck sooner rather than later with my typical skillplans. And Cyber 3 and Infomorph 4 are always my first two skills trained. Big smile
Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
#14 - 2014-01-22 23:07:41 UTC
Arch = Armor Rep Fleet
chim = Shield Rep Fleet
Nid = Rep/logisitics/triage
Than = Ratting/Fighter DPS