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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

First post First post
Author
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#1061 - 2014-01-20 06:18:21 UTC
When I run missions in high people say I don't make that much per hour, flat out lying.

When I write a script to record isk per hour they say the data sample isn't large enough.

When I run anomalies in wormholes they say it isn't sustainable.

They had some bullshit excuse why I wasn't making as much money doing Incursions, but it was pre nerf and now there's some other bullshit reason.

When I rat in low/null I cant make that much because people can show up, therefore not sustainable...

It's the internet, people talk so much **** its unreal. RL example real quick. I used to live in Phoenix, AZ and race radio controlled cars, electric ones with electronic speed controls. I used to put a computer fan on the speed control's heat sink to keep the temp low enough to keep the thermal protection circuit from activating. I got told by literally hundreds of people (on internet forums) that I was stupid because "that would never work". Years later, almost every ESC comes with its own fan. Protip, learn what works for you and forget what "they" say.

CCP has the hard numbers and knows if you're bullshitting about your income or not. And they are the ones who have to balance the game. Arguing on the forums about how much an individual person can make is futile. CCP cares about how much the average min/maxer that can read a metagaming website can make. When its too much, they do something about it.

Which brings me back to the OP (who has probably biomassed by now in shame), the loot table change is just another subtle hisec nerf. Marauders are not marauding as much as they could previously maraud.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Diamond Zerg
Taking Solo Away.
#1062 - 2014-01-20 06:25:11 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
When I run missions in high people say I don't make that much per hour, flat out lying.

When I write a script to record isk per hour they say the data sample isn't large enough.

When I run anomalies in wormholes they say it isn't sustainable.

They had some bullshit excuse why I wasn't making as much money doing Incursions, but it was pre nerf and now there's some other bullshit reason.

When I rat in low/null I cant make that much because people can show up, therefore not sustainable...

It's the internet, people talk so much **** its unreal. RL example real quick. I used to live in Phoenix, AZ and race radio controlled cars, electric ones with electronic speed controls. I used to put a computer fan on the speed control's heat sink to keep the temp low enough to keep the thermal protection circuit from activating. I got told by literally hundreds of people (on internet forums) that I was stupid because "that would never work". Years later, almost every ESC comes with its own fan. Protip, learn what works for you and forget what "they" say.

CCP has the hard numbers and knows if you're bullshitting about your income or not. And they are the ones who have to balance the game. Arguing on the forums about how much an individual person can make is futile. CCP cares about how much the average min/maxer that can read a metagaming website can make. When its too much, they do something about it.

Which brings me back to the OP (who has probably biomassed by now in shame), the loot table change is just another subtle hisec nerf. Marauders are not marauding as much as they could previously maraud.




How dare you suggest I have biomassed in shame?

Mate, hisec should be nerfed. It's an area with very low risk, very high income, and thus unbalances the EVE economy.
Hi.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#1063 - 2014-01-20 06:53:06 UTC
Quote:
How dare you suggest I have biomassed in shame?

Mate, hisec should be nerfed. It's an area with very low risk, very high income, and thus unbalances the EVE economy.


It is less income than w-space and null, and has been nerfed repeatedly. Unfortunately the only slightly higher income in low is mostly outweighed by the much higher risk, hopefully someday CCP will find a fix for that. If YOU can't make more money in another sector of space shame on YOU.

People who don't want to fight will ALWAYS flock to hisec. Lowering the income below what they are willing to play for will only make them quit the game. It has been repeated ad infinitum.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Kira Enomoto
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1064 - 2014-01-20 07:25:04 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:

It's the internet, people talk so much **** its unreal. RL example real quick. I used to live in Phoenix, AZ and race radio controlled cars, electric ones with electronic speed controls. I used to put a computer fan on the speed control's heat sink to keep the temp low enough to keep the thermal protection circuit from activating. I got told by literally hundreds of people (on internet forums) that I was stupid because "that would never work". Years later, almost every ESC comes with its own fan. Protip, learn what works for you and forget what "they" say.


I used part of the cooling unit from a GFXcard. I cut it up so it would fit with the grooves turning the right way and then cut a hole in the "roof" of the car. Big smile

OT: Can someone please explain to me what it is about someone elses gaming experience that makes yours worse?

I have tried to find out during this thread, but I simply cannot. Why does my way of building a sandcastle make yours worse?
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#1065 - 2014-01-20 07:34:46 UTC
Kira Enomoto wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:

It's the internet, people talk so much **** its unreal. RL example real quick. I used to live in Phoenix, AZ and race radio controlled cars, electric ones with electronic speed controls. I used to put a computer fan on the speed control's heat sink to keep the temp low enough to keep the thermal protection circuit from activating. I got told by literally hundreds of people (on internet forums) that I was stupid because "that would never work". Years later, almost every ESC comes with its own fan. Protip, learn what works for you and forget what "they" say.


I used part of the cooling unit from a GFXcard. I cut it up so it would fit with the grooves turning the right way and then cut a hole in the "roof" of the car. Big smile

OT: Can someone please explain to me what it is about someone elses gaming experience that makes yours worse?

I have tried to find out during this thread, but I simply cannot. Why does my way of building a sandcastle make yours worse?


ITT, its because some people feel that the sand is cheaper where there are less bullies (to kick over the sandcastles), and it isnt "fair"™.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Kira Enomoto
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1066 - 2014-01-20 07:41:26 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Kira Enomoto wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:

It's the internet, people talk so much **** its unreal. RL example real quick. I used to live in Phoenix, AZ and race radio controlled cars, electric ones with electronic speed controls. I used to put a computer fan on the speed control's heat sink to keep the temp low enough to keep the thermal protection circuit from activating. I got told by literally hundreds of people (on internet forums) that I was stupid because "that would never work". Years later, almost every ESC comes with its own fan. Protip, learn what works for you and forget what "they" say.


I used part of the cooling unit from a GFXcard. I cut it up so it would fit with the grooves turning the right way and then cut a hole in the "roof" of the car. Big smile

OT: Can someone please explain to me what it is about someone elses gaming experience that makes yours worse?

I have tried to find out during this thread, but I simply cannot. Why does my way of building a sandcastle make yours worse?


ITT, its because some people feel that the sand is cheaper where there are less bullies (to kick over the sandcastles), and it isnt "fair"™.


Hmmm... I though that in EVE fair was given a wedgie and dipped in the fountain.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1067 - 2014-01-20 07:49:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Diamond Zerg wrote:



How dare you suggest I have biomassed in shame?

Mate, hisec should be nerfed. It's an area with very low risk, very high income, and thus unbalances the EVE economy.

Please explain how the area of space with either lowest or second lowest isk faucet (Low & High aren't separable under the figures we have from CCP atm, but together are lower than both WH & Null) is unbalancing the EVE Economy?

High is somewhere between 3-5 times lower isk faucet than Null. Depending on exactly where certain insurances come from (Chances are most insurance comes from Null also as Insured dreads give a lot, but we can't be sure on that).

And produces far lower PI, hardly any dead space loot, no officer loot, hardly any T2 Salvage, hardly any BPC's of note, no moon goo, and worse mining incomes if we want to talk about non isk faucet incomes available in high sec.
Low also has FW LP which we know can produce a very large effective income.

So, please explain to me how it breaks EVE's economy without resorting to the argument of 'High sec makes more isk' because I debunked that myth already.
Diamond Zerg
Taking Solo Away.
#1068 - 2014-01-20 21:05:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Diamond Zerg
Hahahahahahahahaha.

Mate, this isn't about the skilled players who can make more ISK in the risky zones.
This is about the huge number of players (some of who use bots and multiboxing software) that are making huge amounts of ISK with very little skill or risk.

If everyone can do this, the economy becomes imbalanced.

It's the nature of the EVE economy that every time another person makes ISK, yours gets devalued.


If it took more skill to make ISK (and it was harder to bot/multibox) players who used their skill and intelligence to make ISK would be in a much better position.
Hi.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1069 - 2014-01-20 21:10:30 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:

It is less income than w-space and null, and has been nerfed repeatedly.


When?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1070 - 2014-01-20 22:21:16 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Hahahahahahahahaha.

Mate, this isn't about the skilled players who can make more ISK in the risky zones.
This is about the huge number of players (some of who use bots and multiboxing software) that are making huge amounts of ISK with very little skill or risk.

If everyone can do this, the economy becomes imbalanced.

It's the nature of the EVE economy that every time another person makes ISK, yours gets devalued.


If it took more skill to make ISK (and it was harder to bot/multibox) players who used their skill and intelligence to make ISK would be in a much better position.

I'd actually like to see the data linking isk in circulation and prices of items. I'd have to imaging that it largely doesn't exist considering the largest price changes I've seen came about as a result of game mechanics changes that were exasperated by rampant speculation and weren't accompanied by new influxes of isk.

If I'm wrong, there may be some merit to the idea of isk devaluing isk in a real and appreciable sense, but I'd be willing to bet more older players reach a point where their consumption caps based on their activity and either don't spend much time earning past that or just sit on fat wallets which as a result of being horded has no real devaluation effect.
Dedee Rediculous
SniggWaffe
Pandemic Horde
#1071 - 2014-01-20 22:51:43 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


considering i haven't cherry picked my statistics at all, once again disregarding actual proof because it doesn't conform to your incorrect spewing.

Mhmmm. See, insults, accusations, but no hard figures for a large number of people doing true averages. Rather than single perfect incomes. Overall income in Null is higher. It's that simple. You can argue the individual isk/hr all you want, but the month by month income breaks down and shows Null has the isk. As it should, and as anyone with a brain knows is true.


Amoms = 90 mil/hr on average

High sec level 4 missions = 100-120 mil/hr (Missions go up to 180 mil/hr)

Incursions 150 mil+/hr


Your hi-sec level 4 isk per hour is a bit like the fisherman and, 'it was this big'

yes. It needs:
- lvl4 SOE missions only (because of LP)
- blitzing, no killing, no salvaging, etc
- only happens when you get the best missions from all set

the same is about incursions.

Compare it to 0.0 sec anomalies: no conditions except quite local. Officer spawns is a bonus


.....9000 lp for many missions one of which you can do in a shuttle

100m is low end if you have any clue what you are doing.

Likewise, that 90m on null is only with a carrier or pirate battleship, ishtar and tengu make about half of that. Otherwise it's how many accounts you can throw at the issue
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1072 - 2014-01-20 23:00:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Once upon a time I was making 150m/hour with a Vindicator running Forsaken Hubs in Guristas space, while the region was actively being fished by dudes with covert cynos and blackops gangs (I managed not to get killed!) But I got bored of shooting red crosses and my Vindicator has been gathering dust for close to two years now.

That is long in the past now and CCP nerfed that into the ground. Meanwhile running incursions in a shiny fleet in the safety of hisec can still net you more than that once you take LP into account.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1073 - 2014-01-20 23:09:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Oh and I also dodged a trap where some dude in a nullified covert cyno Tengu logged off in the anom with a spy alt watching for the next idiot to warp in. He logged in, landed out of scram range, started burning to me, and the only reason I didn't lose a 2.5b isk battleship plus an expensive clone was because he couldn't tackle me.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#1074 - 2014-01-21 03:03:09 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:

It is less income than w-space and null, and has been nerfed repeatedly.


When?


When they nerfed:

Incursions
Loot tables
meta drops
insurance fraud
bounty payouts
shitpoasting.

Lol, they never nerfed number 6.

That's 5 things off the top of my head. Read the dev blogs for a more inclusive list.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Sevchenko Valens
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1075 - 2014-01-21 03:59:53 UTC
Roll back these mining ship buffs. Needing a brutix to kill a mackinaw is ridiculous.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#1076 - 2014-01-21 11:48:56 UTC
The grass is always greener on the other side of the hill. Regardless on what side of the hill you're on....

That said, I have removed a rule breaking post and the one quoting it.

The rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.


Please keep it civil people!

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

RAIN Arthie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1077 - 2014-01-21 12:24:54 UTC
Sevchenko Valens wrote:
Roll back these mining ship buffs. Needing a brutix to kill a mackinaw is ridiculous.



Well why don't we just get rid of mining all together then. Lose a good portion of the player base and eventually close the game. Your letting your personal feelings drive your posts and fail to take others into consideration. So in short, you can't always have it your way.
TharOkha
0asis Group
#1078 - 2014-01-21 12:59:34 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Sevchenko Valens wrote:
Roll back these mining ship buffs. Needing a brutix to kill a mackinaw is ridiculous.


What is so ridiculous about this? The fact, that 200m+ isk ship has cruiser size HP now, instead of frigate HP?
Sevchenko Valens
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1079 - 2014-01-21 13:15:57 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
Sevchenko Valens wrote:
Roll back these mining ship buffs. Needing a brutix to kill a mackinaw is ridiculous.


What is so ridiculous about this? The fact, that 200m+ isk ship has cruiser size HP now, instead of frigate HP?


My game was considerably more fulfilling when I could kill a miner in a 15 mil isk ship. I used to solo kill these bastards in a catalyst and now I need a brutix?

Maybe you should learn to be pvp bro
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1080 - 2014-01-21 13:22:06 UTC
Sevchenko Valens wrote:
TharOkha wrote:
Sevchenko Valens wrote:
Roll back these mining ship buffs. Needing a brutix to kill a mackinaw is ridiculous.


What is so ridiculous about this? The fact, that 200m+ isk ship has cruiser size HP now, instead of frigate HP?


My game was considerably more fulfilling when I could kill a miner in a 15 mil isk ship. I used to solo kill these bastards in a catalyst and now I need a brutix?

Maybe you should learn to be pvp bro

So much irony in this post.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.