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Can a Low Skill Apoc do level 4 running
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Katherine Dune
Dust Empire
#1 - 2014-01-21 07:57:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Katherine Dune
hey guys

I made a build for the Apoc in EFT while playing around. and i was wondering how much DPS, tank, and setup is needed to survive in level 4 missions

And if this build would be enough - here's the apoc im planning on with support skills all level 4, large energy turret 3, battleship level 3, and armor tanking tech 2 capable + support skills level 4

499 DPS/3776 Alpha,
71/63/57/54 Resistances,
80km Engagement Range,
Cap lasts 6 minutes with reps/Stable without the repair on,
57k EHP,
289 M/S with AB
338/176 Arm Rep

[Apocalypse, ApocPVE]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Large Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Adaptive Nano Plating II

Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Optical Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range Script
Experimental 100MN Afterburner I

Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Neor Deninard
Blackwater Coalition Forces
Harkonnen Federation
#2 - 2014-01-21 08:15:06 UTC
Also 80km range -> a lot of L4 BS will reach out to that range. I'd stay miles away from any missions vs. gurista's ;) + kinda low DPS -> You're going to burn a small fortune in those cap boosters.

I assume a flight of med or light drones, else you'll be in for a lot of fun with frigates//(spider)drones.

Use mission specific hardners.

So, yes you may be able to run L4s in it. Will it be fast and effective? I doubt it. Will there be L4s that will cost you that setup. Definately.

Can you replace this in 15 minutes once you loose it by flying to Jita and rebuying it all? If no, stick to L3s for now.
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#3 - 2014-01-21 08:42:38 UTC
^ that guy has no idea. THe cap boosters arent gona cost you **** all. However that Armor rep is gonna cost you a bit and possibly kill you if you run out of paste.

Although he was right use mission specific hardeners. And a t2 large armor repairer. In eft you want to be looking at around 500+ dps peak tank. about 300 sustained should be fine for most missions. Dont use a trimark in the rigs adding more buffer will do bugger all use a aux nano pump should give you more tank.


And yeh hes also right you'd probably be better off blitzing L3s in an omen or harby Especially as you are trying to use tachs which need good supports.
Odithia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-01-21 09:39:45 UTC
Apoc may be the most noobs friendly turret Amarr BS, it is still much more skill intensive than say a Dominix.
This setup looks very tricky to me, first of all ditch the AAR as you will run it almost constantly.
If you run tachyon you will want either a MJD or a MWD to quickly get out of range of the baddies.
If you cannot fit either consider replacing a cap booster with a cap recharger.
And fit specific hardener rather than adaptive and damage control.
Katherine Dune
Dust Empire
#5 - 2014-01-21 10:00:55 UTC
i see alot of advice here. any chance someone could show me what a decent/low skill apoc would look like?
Sid Crash
#6 - 2014-01-21 10:04:19 UTC
You really shouldn't use a fit like that, here's why:

- don't use an AAR in PVE, it's too costly to run
- don't use omni resists instead fit the right resists per mission. Takes a few seconds but makes it a lot better
- your rigs are a mess tbh, trimark has no place in an active tanked pve ship and there's just too many fitting rigs in there

If you can't fit Tachs without going all out on the fitting modules&rigs, just don't use them. Get Mega beams instead, easier to fit and easier to use.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-01-21 11:02:09 UTC
Sid Crash wrote:
You really shouldn't use a fit like that, here's why:

- don't use an AAR in PVE, it's too costly to run
- don't use omni resists instead fit the right resists per mission. Takes a few seconds but makes it a lot better
- your rigs are a mess tbh, trimark has no place in an active tanked pve ship and there's just too many fitting rigs in there

If you can't fit Tachs without going all out on the fitting modules&rigs, just don't use them. Get Mega beams instead, easier to fit and easier to use.


This^

TBH that fit hurt my eyes. Downgrade the beams so you don't have to use those ACR rigs. Get a Imperial Navy armor repper. Remove the trimark and use the rig that increases repair amount. Do missions in Amarr space since they'll be a whole lot easier for you. If you can wait till I get on my computer I'll post you a fit. On my phone now at work lol
Katherine Dune
Dust Empire
#8 - 2014-01-21 11:07:22 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Sid Crash wrote:
You really shouldn't use a fit like that, here's why:

- don't use an AAR in PVE, it's too costly to run
- don't use omni resists instead fit the right resists per mission. Takes a few seconds but makes it a lot better
- your rigs are a mess tbh, trimark has no place in an active tanked pve ship and there's just too many fitting rigs in there

If you can't fit Tachs without going all out on the fitting modules&rigs, just don't use them. Get Mega beams instead, easier to fit and easier to use.


This^

TBH that fit hurt my eyes. Downgrade the beams so you don't have to use those ACR rigs. Get a Imperial Navy armor repper. Remove the trimark and use the rig that increases repair amount. Do missions in Amarr space since they'll be a whole lot easier for you. If you can wait till I get on my computer I'll post you a fit. On my phone now at work lol


appreciate it. i didnt think id be able to with that fit. at the moment im just learning the ins and outs. im happy to train towards something that works
Igor Nappi
Doomheim
#9 - 2014-01-21 11:29:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Igor Nappi
A level 4 tachyon Apocalypse could look something like this.

[Apocalypse, L4tach]
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


- Make sure you have a flight or two of light drones (Hobgoblin IIs) to handle close orbiting frigates
- Swap one of the mids to a 100mn AB for the missions that require burning tens of kilometers between gates
- Swap the hardeners to match the rat damage types (and try to avoid Angel and Guristas missions)
- Using the ACR rig could be avoided using Genolution implants or a cheap power grid implant.
- Carry a set of ultraviolet and multifrequency crystals and both scripts for the tracking computers
- Faction heatsinks and a deadspace (C-type) armor repairer are good investments.
- Faction crystals give more DPS and are relatively cheap to use in a laser boat
- Similarly fit Abaddon works too - trading cap life and range/tracking for more DPS and a bit more burst tank.

Furthermore, I think that links must be removed from the game.
Layla Firoue
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-01-21 11:50:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Layla Firoue
Train sentry drones and use a Geddon. Even with tech I sentries you will deal more dps with better tracking and better range projection. Once you have settled that you can train tech II large guns and aim for a pulse Apoc, it will save yourself a lot of grief and it will earn you more isk/h in the meantime (sentry Geddon).
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#11 - 2014-01-21 12:24:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
I really think the mega beam mjd apoc is the easiest amarr BS for starting to get the hang of L4s with. OP, can you field skill wise something like the following?

[Apocalypse, L4tmega]

Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Large Micro Jump Drive

Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Energy Locus Coordinator II
Eyana Starstruck
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-01-21 12:59:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Eyana Starstruck
As you can see many people have different opinions on how you should fit your ship, there are some general guidelines but the end fit should be something that you enjoy using. The general guidelines are that you do not mix 2 types of tank, meaning you dont mix buffer and active tank, especially armor, for missions. Concerning your question about apoc and all I would like to suggest you a fit that you can consider if you find it viable to use in missions.

I would like to suggest a MJD (large micro jump drive) tactic in mission running, it is excellent since it allows you avoid much of the damage.

The fit looks something like this, hope you like it and it suits your play style.

[High slots]

-Mega modulated energy beam x8

[Medium slots]

-Large micro jump drive x1
-Sensor booster II x1 (can be meta 4 doesn't really matter cause it will still give you enough of locking range)
-Heavy electrochemical capacitor booster I (filled with 800 or 400 cap boosters your choice but you will probably seldom use it anyway if you keep enemies at distance from you using MJD (note that it has a cooldown of 3 mins) but just in case you get some cap problems to help you out, later on if you feel comfortable with your cap managment and you learn the missions you can switch it for another tracking computer)
-Tracking computer II x1

[Low slots]

-Large armor repairer II
-Armor specific hardeners x2 (1 for primary damage type and 1 for secondary damage type)
-Heat sink II x4

[Rigs]

Large energy discharge elutriation I
Large ancillary current router I
Now if you are having trouble with cpu for this fit you can fit Large processor overclocking unit I if not you can fit a Large capacitor control circuit I

It will not be the fastest mission runner out there but it will finish them but for a new player it is a decent fit until you learn the ropes on how level 4 missions work with apoc. There are lots of guides on this so just poke around on the internet and you will find some instantly. Concerning the missions explanations and spawn triggers you can go to eve-survival and find all the mission information there.

Best regards

Eyana Starstruck
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#13 - 2014-01-21 13:32:47 UTC
Mega modulated energy beam is a valid option. But if you want to fly with tachyons - you can fit like this:

Reactor Control Unit II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II

Sensor Booster II
Tracking Computer II + optimal range script
Cap Recharger II
Large Micro Jump Drive

Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


5 x Hammerhead II
5 x Hobgoblin II

With all 5 skills it is cap stable without MJD and armor repairer + has targeting range over 100 km and can apply up to 550 DPS over 50 km optimal with stadard multifrequency crystals. This way you can always jump 100 km from your targets and grill them instantly increasing DPS as they come closer. But with laser turrets you will have hard time fighting EM resistent NPS. With Armageddon you can use sentry drones , which is ammar and gallente way of ajusting damage type to missions. Armageddon Navy Issue will allow you use both sentry drones and tachyon beams...

Absolutely free head start for newcomers!. Just click the link and get extra 250 000 SP!
Eyana Starstruck
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-01-21 13:50:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Eyana Starstruck
For that fit of yours to work you need to have at least 3-4 in advanced weapon upgrades which is not something new pilots prioritize. Your fit can be improved by ditching 2 of those CCC rigs for a large energy discharge elutriation rig and fitting large ancillary rig thus removing the need of that reactor control so you can fit another heat sink, you just are 1% of pw short which can easily be acquired trough genolution implant set which also boosts the cap recharge rate thus making it great for amarr ship users.
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#15 - 2014-01-21 14:44:24 UTC
Micro Jump Drive (MJD)

Figure out a way to fit it, and kite the mission like you did when you started running level IIs with a destroyer. Same principal.

The only time that doesn't really work is Gurista Battleships. They don't scram so just align if you are taking a lot of pressure.

Also, work on your powergrid/cpu/fitting skills as well as controlled bursts in gunnery. You should not need that many cap boosters.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-01-21 18:15:59 UTC
erg cz wrote:
Mega modulated energy beam is a valid option. But if you want to fly with tachyons - you can fit like this:

Reactor Control Unit II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II

Sensor Booster II
Tracking Computer II + optimal range script
Cap Recharger II
Large Micro Jump Drive

Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


5 x Hammerhead II
5 x Hobgoblin II

With all 5 skills it is cap stable without MJD and armor repairer + has targeting range over 100 km and can apply up to 550 DPS over 50 km optimal with stadard multifrequency crystals. This way you can always jump 100 km from your targets and grill them instantly increasing DPS as they come closer. But with laser turrets you will have hard time fighting EM resistent NPS. With Armageddon you can use sentry drones , which is ammar and gallente way of ajusting damage type to missions. Armageddon Navy Issue will allow you use both sentry drones and tachyon beams...


This is a pretty good fit! I just copied it into EFT format so it can be copied/pasted. If you're keeping things at MJD range you're most likely going to use Gamma or Xray due to the long range. For fighting Sansha/ BR it would work well since at 70+ km you're going to be taking very little damage. I would advise having T2 light drones with minimum Drone Interfacing 4 in case you need to kill a frigate that's scramming you. If you screw up the MJD thing it's not fun waiting on your MJD cooldown while your armor is melting from full room aggro!

[Apocalypse, MJD]
Reactor Control Unit II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II

Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Cap Recharger II
Large Micro Jump Drive

Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Xray L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Xray L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Xray L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Xray L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Xray L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Xray L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Xray L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Xray L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Katherine Dune
Dust Empire
#17 - 2014-01-21 20:39:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Katherine Dune
IIshira wrote:
erg cz wrote:
Mega modulated energy beam is a valid option. But if you want to fly with tachyons - you can fit like this:

Reactor Control Unit II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II

Sensor Booster II
Tracking Computer II + optimal range script
Cap Recharger II
Large Micro Jump Drive

Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


5 x Hammerhead II
5 x Hobgoblin II

With all 5 skills it is cap stable without MJD and armor repairer + has targeting range over 100 km and can apply up to 550 DPS over 50 km optimal with stadard multifrequency crystals. This way you can always jump 100 km from your targets and grill them instantly increasing DPS as they come closer. But with laser turrets you will have hard time fighting EM resistent NPS. With Armageddon you can use sentry drones , which is ammar and gallente way of ajusting damage type to missions. Armageddon Navy Issue will allow you use both sentry drones and tachyon beams...


This is a pretty good fit! I just copied it into EFT format so it can be copied/pasted. If you're keeping things at MJD range you're most likely going to use Gamma or Xray due to the long range. For fighting Sansha/ BR it would work well since at 70+ km you're going to be taking very little damage. I would advise having T2 light drones with minimum Drone Interfacing 4 in case you need to kill a frigate that's scramming you. If you screw up the MJD thing it's not fun waiting on your MJD cooldown while your armor is melting from full room aggro!

[Apocalypse, MJD]
Reactor Control Unit II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II

Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Cap Recharger II
Large Micro Jump Drive

Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Xray L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Xray L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Xray L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Xray L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Xray L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Xray L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Xray L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Xray L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5


I tried this build and with basic level 3 battleship/level 3 large energy it would look like this and its the only one that fits besides the one i made originally, the other two previous are great suggestions, but i wont be able to field them until i bump up cap management and power to level 5

With the cap recharger. it stats the its got 2 minutes 32 seconds, with a cap booster, EFT says cap stable

anyway. stats would look like this

435 DPS/2308 Alpha - not as great as the tachyon ><
128KM Target range/65KM Attack range using Gamma Ammo
70/66 in most resists using hardeners
2m32s Cap with recharger/stable if using Cap booster
159 Armor Rep
35k EHP

Btw. this is all for the future that im looking into. there is a battleship im alot more skilled for and could jump into right now. but im not sure how it is and if its capable but here it is

[Typhoon, Typh]
Co-Processor II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Damage Control II

Ionic Field Accelerator I
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 150
Explosive Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
100MN Microwarpdrive I

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]

Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I

Hammerhead I x4
Hobgoblin I x4


With this build i have the following stats ( much better )

I have a tone of CPU and power free. so i could easily modify this build around

EHP 47k
546 Shield Rep
512 DPS/3982 Alpha
1m32 second cap/stable at 89% without the MWD on
932MS
112KM Range
80%+ in any resist using mission specific

I know it seem's like im rushing to get into a big ship, but im honestly not, i just like to plan ahead so im looking into which path would be "faster" and more efficient for me to get to level 4 mission running
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#18 - 2014-01-21 21:09:35 UTC
Katherine Dune wrote:
I tried this build and with basic level 3 battleship/level 3 large energy it would look like this and its the only one that fits

I don't know how new you are but a while back, CCP gave everyone some free implants for Christmas. Nowadays, you can get them really cheap on the market. They're called Genolution CA-1 and CA-2. I think they cost about 50m for the pair, plus you can get skill hardwires really cheap which help you with fitting. I'd recommend any new player uses those implants for PvE activities.

Oh god.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-01-21 22:41:34 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Katherine Dune wrote:
I tried this build and with basic level 3 battleship/level 3 large energy it would look like this and its the only one that fits

I don't know how new you are but a while back, CCP gave everyone some free implants for Christmas. Nowadays, you can get them really cheap on the market. They're called Genolution CA-1 and CA-2. I think they cost about 50m for the pair, plus you can get skill hardwires really cheap which help you with fitting. I'd recommend any new player uses those implants for PvE activities.


I recommend you get "Power Grid Management" and "CPU Management" to 5. Both are rank 1 skills and this means they train quickly. These two should have been the first you got to 5 since they give you raw CPU and power. You might want to make an Eveboard for people to look at your skills and give advice.

I see you're talking about missiles and a whole different race of ships when you don't have basic core skills yet. To me this seems like a very bad idea. You should chose missiles or guns since both are a huge SP sink and you don't want to be so so in both when you could be awesome at one. I'm speaking from experience here because I sucked at everything for a long time on my first pilot because I did this!

Also if you keep range with the MJD you won't need to tank rats that are shooting lasers at you so cap won't be an issue. Now if you're fighting Guristas that's a different story since they use missiles and will hit you at any range.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-01-21 22:43:34 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Katherine Dune wrote:
I tried this build and with basic level 3 battleship/level 3 large energy it would look like this and its the only one that fits

I don't know how new you are but a while back, CCP gave everyone some free implants for Christmas. Nowadays, you can get them really cheap on the market. They're called Genolution CA-1 and CA-2. I think they cost about 50m for the pair, plus you can get skill hardwires really cheap which help you with fitting. I'd recommend any new player uses those implants for PvE activities.


Also good advice! +3 CPU or Power grid hardwires are cheap. Around 20 mil I think
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