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HED-GP Reinforced Node. Good job CCP. 3,900+ in Local.
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Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#101 - 2014-01-19 11:41:03 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
And EVE could possibly be made to run a significant portion of its server code on GPGPUs or parallel cores but it would take a complete rewrite of the game, from scratch, in a different language. It would be such a massive undertaking that it would require the entire development team to stop working on current EVE. They would lose a lot of subscribers over the years they would be doing this, it would cost a lot of money because they would of course have to keep paying wages and fees, and they would probably have to invest in new hardware to run the new code (since Tranquility is heavily optimized for single-core performance per node).


CCP should have R&D.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#102 - 2014-01-19 11:42:39 UTC
What would that imply?

(I'm pretty sure they already do, but humor me.)

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#103 - 2014-01-19 11:51:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Severide
Almethea wrote:
4k ppl in system and no crash, GJ CCP!

now this thread need more of : nerf null for more ppl in hi-sec, nerf null for more cauz we need more prod in hi-sec and many more of comon stupid thing

fixed it for you....
Kappy Ukap
K For Kill
#104 - 2014-01-19 11:58:45 UTC
Hearing all about this HED-GP fight in channels in EVE and in forums makes me happy I didn't take part in this battle, or even visited it.
Walextheone
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2014-01-19 12:06:49 UTC
To all you who are complaining, a lot of AAA games really have a hardcap of 64 players. 4000 players are pretty extreme and no other game seems to be able to cope with that many.

The code isn't not much of a problem, it's the hardware, even when using experimental overclockecked CPUs there is a cap.

Some says a multlithreaded setup up would raise the bars even higher, but at this point is pure speculation on how much it would really help.


Big kudos to CCP
Kappy Ukap
K For Kill
#106 - 2014-01-19 12:16:09 UTC
Walextheone wrote:
To all you who are complaining, a lot of AAA games really have a hardcap of 64 players. 4000 players are pretty extreme and no other game seems to be able to cope with that many.

The code isn't not much of a problem, it's the hardware, even when using experimental overclockecked CPUs there is a cap.

Some says a multlithreaded setup up would raise the bars even higher, but at this point is pure speculation on how much it would really help.


Big kudos to CCP


True, EVE is the only game that can handle such high amounts of players at one area like this. It's surprising how it can even handle 4000 players without crashing or freezing in the first place.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#107 - 2014-01-19 12:29:57 UTC
Y'know, there is another solution to your giant blob problems...

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2014-01-19 12:43:07 UTC
Walextheone wrote:
To all you who are complaining, a lot of AAA games really have a hardcap of 64 players. 4000 players are pretty extreme and no other game seems to be able to cope with that many.

The code isn't not much of a problem, it's the hardware, even when using experimental overclockecked CPUs there is a cap.

Some says a multlithreaded setup up would raise the bars even higher, but at this point is pure speculation on how much it would really help.


Big kudos to CCP
*sighs* It's always pure speculation, before one has at least a slight clue of what he is talking about.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#109 - 2014-01-19 12:51:57 UTC
Kappy Ukap wrote:
True, EVE is the only game that can handle such high amounts of players at one area like this. It's surprising how it can even handle 4000 players without crashing or freezing in the first place.

This was "handling" it?
Dizzy Morbo
Method Synergy
#110 - 2014-01-19 13:10:13 UTC
Is it kind of joke about good job from CCP? 10% TiDi sure?
Of course, fight was great for PL and N3 that jumped in HED system 8 hours!!! before timer came out. Jumping to the cyno in HED took me 1,5 hour of real time, 30% of jumped pilots could not make it finally to the destination system, either been stuck in the tunnel or killed being still in warp tunnel.
We all wanted to have super capital fight but in the end had literally no fight, siege modules and guns at dreads did not activate (making them useless in such kind of engagements), portaling fleet took 1,5 hour, lots of crashing clients, real TiDi was not 10% but rather 1%. As the result it was not the fight we all wanted to have.
Yes, well done CCP you make this game better from day to day Sad
Josef Djugashvilis
#111 - 2014-01-19 13:12:03 UTC
Dizzy Morbo wrote:
Is it kind of joke about good job from CCP? 10% TiDi sure?
Of course, fight was great for PL and N3 that jumped in HED system 8 hours!!! before timer came out. Jumping to the cyno in HED took me 1,5 hour of real time, 30% of jumped pilots could not make it finally to the destination system, either been stuck in the tunnel or killed being still in warp tunnel.
We all wanted to have super capital fight but in the end had literally no fight, siege modules and guns at dreads did not activate (making them useless in such kind of engagements), portaling fleet took 1,5 hour, lots of crashing clients, real TiDi was not 10% but rather 1%. As the result it was not the fight we all wanted to have.
Yes, well done CCP you make this game better from day to day Sad


So the smart guys who planned ahead won the battle.

Sounds fair to me.

This is not a signature.
Erin Crawford
#112 - 2014-01-19 13:18:24 UTC
Dizzy Morbo wrote:
Is it kind of joke about good job from CCP? 10% TiDi sure?
Of course, fight was great for PL and N3 that jumped in HED system 8 hours!!! before timer came out. Jumping to the cyno in HED took me 1,5 hour of real time, 30% of jumped pilots could not make it finally to the destination system, either been stuck in the tunnel or killed being still in warp tunnel.
We all wanted to have super capital fight but in the end had literally no fight, siege modules and guns at dreads did not activate (making them useless in such kind of engagements), portaling fleet took 1,5 hour, lots of crashing clients, real TiDi was not 10% but rather 1%. As the result it was not the fight we all wanted to have.
Yes, well done CCP you make this game better from day to day Sad


Has there ever been a 2000+ battle in a system without any TiDi at all?

Layla Firoue wrote:
You guys KNEW that there would be heavy Tidi, you guys KNEW that the node would be unresponsive and yet...

"Those who talk don’t know. Those who know don’t talk. "
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#113 - 2014-01-19 13:27:17 UTC
And before someone says "get faster processors" it should also be mentioned that we've pretty much reached the limit as far as single-core performance.

From here CCP has two options, one of which they're taking

The first approach is, as mentioned above, to completely rewrite all of EVE from the ground up, in a language other than Stackless Python, to exploit the powers of parallel computing. Some game mechanics would probably have to change for this to happen, invariably some bugs will get fixed while many, many more would be introduced, and it would be a massive undertaking for an extended period of time that would completely stagnate the game in the interim. This would also require them to essentially build an entirely new server, which would itself be an expensive undertaking.

The other approach, which CCP is taking, is to make extensive optimizations to various individual parts of the program. CCP's server load balancing algorithm, Brain in a Box, and other related projects are all a part of this effort. It requires significantly less programming effort, most likely won't introduce nearly as many new bugs (some are to be expected), and the CCP doesn't have to stop iterating on the actual game for this to happen.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#114 - 2014-01-19 14:00:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Grrrr

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kaska Aya
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#115 - 2014-01-19 14:01:24 UTC
warping 8,9 AU ~ 10min (not bad)
launching drones ~ 50min
assisting drones ~ 1h40min
then align ~ 2min o.O
first time my drones shot ~ 50min
then i go afk...

7h fight, my drones shot 11times...

and today i check kb, i have only 1kill and its on ally pod (Weapon: Unknown WTF HOW!?)

GJ CCP BEST FIGHT EVER!
Nerf Ratting
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#116 - 2014-01-19 14:21:46 UTC
Would people have preferred the server to crash?

No matter what CCP does to optimise processing, sides will bring more people to the fight and fill up the excess capacity. A fight with 3500-4000 would have been unheard of five years ago.

No one likes to lose but complaints about how the game is broken is silly. Adapt and avoid making such mistakes in the future.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#117 - 2014-01-19 14:35:16 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:

So the smart guys who planned ahead won the battle.

Sounds fair to me.


Well, it kind of was a reverse of the battle of 6VDT. That time we bridged in way ahead of time, spreading jump-ins to reduce TiDi. Also, as far as I recall - and a dev could be so nice and tell us exactly, dispel the rumours once and for all - it's just the client that's written in stackless python.

Various things contribute to the server load but by far the worst of them is the Session Change. Session change (which, to my knowledge, updates your skill queue, implants, how your stuff affects your ship and guns...) occurs when switching systems. If we look at this battle for instance, by the looks of it what snapped the node (or brought it to near-halt) was 500 dreadnoughts jumping in, with the node already under heavy TiDi.

I guess, at this point while CCP works on mitigating the blob via sov mechanics, the only thing they can do is try to implement the "Brain in a box" concept mentioned during fanfest - and that's hardly an easy task.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Mr Blah Blahson
Doomheim
#118 - 2014-01-19 15:48:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Blah Blahson
I am unsure of why people are blaming a lack of processing power on this. Local system optimization is most likely not the issue here. We have 4,000 people relaying commands to one server at once. The server must process all those commands, then distribute all 4,000 results to all 4,000 people at once. Maybe in 2050 we'll have technology (that's realistically priced) that can pull this off effectively. As for today, let's get real; not gonna happen.

Most obvious solution is as mentioned, to rework Sov mechanics. Find a way to give incentives to NOT escalate past 500 players per side. A similar system to incursions could work; giving large bonuses' to fleets that arrive with the "optimal size". Large groups like the CFC need to be able to form "superalliances" with eachother in order of this mechanic to work. In cases where more than 2 superalliances clash in a system, this mechanic would of course begin to fall apart as the numbers reach 1,500+ again. However for Superalliance vs. Superalliance, this could limit the system to 1,000 players thus providing a mostly playable atmosphere. I do not know how such an incentive system would work to truly promote this, but as a base idea this is the way to go IMO.

- Blah
Roxie Glitz
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#119 - 2014-01-19 15:56:10 UTC
"The serverlog knows in each situation, which bump was friendly/unfriendly"


2000vs2000
JD No7
V I R I I
#120 - 2014-01-19 16:44:27 UTC
A constellation based sov warfare system, with multiple points to be hit at the same time, may help BUT all will happen is that the attackers will move as a group from one system to the next killing the defenders fleets and THEN split up to do the simultaneous stuff.