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Advice for L4 Mael vs. Guristas
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Silverblack
Quantum Chronodynamics
#1 - 2014-01-16 20:03:42 UTC
Hi,

First I'm somewhat of a noob, but have reasonable support skills due to playing the game quite a few years ago for quite a while (although I remember almost nothing). So I decided to run missions in Caldari space (meaning against a lot of Guristas). I'm specialized in Minmatar boats, so the Mael seems the best choice. I've been able to come up with the above fit by checking a lot of other setups and checking whatever I liked in EFT.

It seems an ok fit, but the only worry I have is whether the cap time is enough to hold for some of the tougher lvl. 4 missions (It holds for 3:36 with my skills and for 4:36 with all 5s). Tell me what you think about it. Any advice is welcome :)

P.S. I tried fitting 1400mm arties, but they are way out of my league PG-wise. As for any AC fits - I don't think they'll work very well against Guristas as they tend to try to keep range. Correct me if I'm wrong...


[Maelstrom, PVE Arty Maelstrom for L4 vs.Guristas]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Large Shield Booster II
100MN Afterburner II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Shield Boost Amplifier II

1200mm Artillery Cannon II
1200mm Artillery Cannon II
1200mm Artillery Cannon II
1200mm Artillery Cannon II
1200mm Artillery Cannon II
1200mm Artillery Cannon II
1200mm Artillery Cannon II
1200mm Artillery Cannon II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#2 - 2014-01-16 20:21:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
No need to move if you're using arty. Fits without the PG rig w/ AWU 5 or a PG implant. An implant to free up your 3rd rigslot is probably good idea, if you have AWU trained at all. Faction ammo is definitely worth it given the low ammo consumption of artillery. You can replace the ECCM for a capacitor mod or AB or tracking computer or whatever, as ECM is more prevalent in some anomalies than others. If you can use a tracking computer at fit a 4th gyro, that would also be good.

Warp in at range, deploy sentries, blap away. Sustained tank is pretty good, and you can run the booster for a good 7 minutes straight as well. Can fit an XL booster with this fit, but you need to save a bit of CPU here and there, like with faction hardeners or damage mods. If you want to pimp it at all, 60m for a faction gyro, or like 40 mil for a pith b-type kinetic hardener are a good place to start. Pith b/c-type xl booster is also only like 60/80m as well.

[Maelstrom, guristas anomalies, No pimp]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large Shield Booster II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Conjunctive Ladar ECCM Scanning Array I
Shield Boost Amplifier II

1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Warden II x3
Hornet II x 5

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Silverblack
Quantum Chronodynamics
#3 - 2014-01-19 02:13:37 UTC
Thanks for the advice, I may try this fit. Any other thoughts on how I can improve my setup?
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2014-01-19 02:17:58 UTC
A Damage Control Unit if you're having problems tanking the damage. But if this works fine then no point wasting lots of effort trying to make it better.
Sid Crash
#5 - 2014-01-19 02:26:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Sid Crash
Silverblack wrote:
Thanks for the advice, I may try this fit. Any other thoughts on how I can improve my setup?


I'm not a fan of 1400 for missions, the tracking is really bad and the amount of overkill you get is potentially huge, even if you start using tons of groups. With Guristas which stay at range it does make sense to go for the biggest guns but overall 1200mm arties just "flow" better. Also allows you to drop a hardener in favour of AB and then drop the ACR for a resist rig to make up for it.

Also I'd drop one TE for a ladar backup, drop the ladar ECCM in favour of a tracking comp.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#6 - 2014-01-19 03:20:42 UTC
Sorry, for some reason I thought this was for nullsec anomalies, not missions, I think my fit is a bit suspect for lvl 4's.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Maxxor Brutor
Borderline Procurements
#7 - 2014-01-19 03:58:26 UTC
Bring a mobile depot and a MJD, jump to range and blap and you'll need to tank less (even against Guristas).
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#8 - 2014-01-19 09:55:38 UTC
I think the OP is almost there, a few small tweaks really is all that's needed. The first thing I'd say is that the other advice you've had regarding 1400mm is spot on - steer clear for solo Lvl 4 missions. Yes, you can MJD around like a ******, but why bother when you can just sit there and own everything?

I've just moved to a Vargur on my Projectiles alt, but he was in a Maelstrom for a long time and this is the fit I used. 500Mil ISK and 928 DPS excluding drones (so over 1K DPS easily). It's cap stable with the AB switched off, and you can always Faction/DS the tank if you want:

[Maelstrom, PVE - T2]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Large Shield Booster II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
100MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II

800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Sid Crash
#9 - 2014-01-19 11:02:50 UTC
They're Guristas, that means they orbit at 20, 30 and 50km. AC make no sense at all.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#10 - 2014-01-20 08:41:40 UTC
Sid Crash wrote:
They're Guristas, that means they orbit at 20, 30 and 50km. AC make no sense at all.


I think you must have made a mistake. Did you mean artillery makes no sense? I mission exclusively in Guristas space and AC is perfect. My AC Maelstrom tore through and my new Vargur is even more effective.

AC is perfect for Guristas.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Sid Crash
#11 - 2014-01-20 10:41:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Sid Crash
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Sid Crash wrote:
They're Guristas, that means they orbit at 20, 30 and 50km. AC make no sense at all.


I think you must have made a mistake. Did you mean artillery makes no sense? I mission exclusively in Guristas space and AC is perfect. My AC Maelstrom tore through and my new Vargur is even more effective.

AC is perfect for Guristas.


Red is your AC fit, blue is your AC fit with 1200MM arty. Your super duper AC fit stops being effective beyond 20km compared to 1200 arty. Guristas tends to orbit beyond 20km and most certainly start out WAY beyond that range. Result; Artie is preferred over AC when fighting Guristas if you use a Maelstrom.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#12 - 2014-01-20 12:39:21 UTC  |  Edited by: John Ratcliffe
Sid Crash wrote:

Red is your AC fit, blue is your AC fit with 1200MM arty. Your super duper AC fit stops being effective beyond 20km compared to 1200 arty. Guristas tends to orbit beyond 20km and most certainly start out WAY beyond that range. Result; Artie is preferred over AC when fighting Guristas if you use a Maelstrom.


Hmmm...I've only used 1400 and 800 so can't really comment on 1200. Even if you are right (which I don't know), AC is still effective and viable. I make that comment based upon the fact I use AC every day for Guristas Lvl 4s. It works. It owns.

I'll have a go of 1200 tonight and see what I think.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Sid Crash
#13 - 2014-01-20 12:45:40 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Sid Crash wrote:

Red is your AC fit, blue is your AC fit with 1200MM arty. Your super duper AC fit stops being effective beyond 20km compared to 1200 arty. Guristas tends to orbit beyond 20km and most certainly start out WAY beyond that range. Result; Artie is preferred over AC when fighting Guristas if you use a Maelstrom.


Hmmm...I've only used 1400 and 800 so can't really comment on 1200. Even if you are right (which I don't know), AC is still effective and viable. I make that comment based upon the fact I use AC every day for Guristas Lvl 4s. It works. It owns.

I'll have a go of 1200 tonight and see what I think.


1400 looks good on paper (in that graph they'd do even better) but 1200 just work better in realistic scenarios, less unwieldy, less overkill, less tracking issues.