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If mining used the same system as Pi

Author
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#41 - 2014-01-18 14:40:11 UTC
Artemis Ellery Sazas wrote:
I just love how all these non-miners that haven't mined since they were noobs hate mining and demand it needs to be changed. I like mining, I can easily spend hours mining and enjoy every second of it. I find it very relaxing after a stressful day in RL.

If players like the New Order doesn't like mining, then too bad. Ganking is far more afk than mining is. Fit ship, find target, overheat and shoot for 15 seconds, get blown up by Concord, sit in station for 10-12 minutes while aggression timer stops, repeat steps. Yipppeeee!

Mining, except for the new ore sites, is one of the few things that work in EVE perfectly fine. I still prefer the old method of finding grav sites though. I think CCP have far more important issues on their plate right now than mining. Blink


I would suggest that the player who warps to someone and blows them up, is considerably more at the keyboard than someone who didn't dock up with 3+ reds in local.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2014-01-18 14:47:15 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Artemis Ellery Sazas wrote:
I just love how all these non-miners that haven't mined since they were noobs hate mining and demand it needs to be changed. I like mining, I can easily spend hours mining and enjoy every second of it. I find it very relaxing after a stressful day in RL.

If players like the New Order doesn't like mining, then too bad. Ganking is far more afk than mining is. Fit ship, find target, overheat and shoot for 15 seconds, get blown up by Concord, sit in station for 10-12 minutes while aggression timer stops, repeat steps. Yipppeeee!

Mining, except for the new ore sites, is one of the few things that work in EVE perfectly fine. I still prefer the old method of finding grav sites though. I think CCP have far more important issues on their plate right now than mining. Blink


I would suggest that the player who warps to someone and blows them up, is considerably more at the keyboard than someone who didn't dock up with 3+ reds in local.

yes, he is. first 15 seconds
then up to 15 minutes he is afk

i'm not sure but i think mining needs you to pay attention more often than once in 15 minutes

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Dave Stark
#43 - 2014-01-18 15:27:00 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
It's actually not a bad idea. Mining has changed just about not at all in 10 years.

probably because it's not broken and functions perfectly fine; let's keep it that way.

Just because something functions fine (very subjective term btw) doesn't mean it couldn't be improved. Mining is pretty boring, the only difference between mining and PI is mining requires less clicking but it's quite as non interactive as PI. The only major difference is a requirement to be in space to mine.

fine isn't subjective at all.
Mr Blah Blahson
Doomheim
#44 - 2014-01-18 15:47:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Blah Blahson
Would love to see a bit more "active" mining. Using the PI system of having to extract from higher concentrated areas could be nice. Those who AFK get less yield, those who stay can increase their yield.

+1
Dave Stark
#45 - 2014-01-18 15:50:40 UTC
Mr Blah Blahson wrote:
Would love to see a bit more "active" mining. Using the PI system of having to extract from higher concentrated areas could be nice. Those who AFK get less yield, those who stay can increase their yield.

+1

then i want to see an abhorrent mini game everytime some one activates their blasters, etc.
it's only fair.
Digital Messiah
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#46 - 2014-01-18 20:20:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Digital Messiah
Being that I trained perfect mining skills and have been mining in eve since 2006, I started this game as a miner. I feel like I know the system better than a non-miner, thank you. It is unfortunate that CCP turned mining and it's systems into what it is. The player base is steadily growing and even if every 1/5 pilots becomes a miner. That usually means they will create 2-3 alt accounts making it more on average of every 2/5 or 3/5 pilots being into mining. The current system rewards higher m3 for obvious reasons. But it also inflates the market when we have bots, 3+ mining alts, and access to minerals from reprocessing items.

The current system can not be balanced or rather will not be balanced. This is because mining is one of the top blocks in the eve online market pyramid. As it has grown bigger, it has put more and more weight on the blocks below it. I fear for this balance of the scales. The reason I have PVE skills is more in reflection for me to be able to do what I want. Over the years as that block has gotten fatter I go and dip into activities that become more profitable. This has been in remedy with incursions, missions, trade, etc.

The problem we face today almost 11 years after EVE-O's birth, is one of scaling, rather than broken mechanics. I fail to see why EVE will not hit 1,000,000 subscribers. Or when the log in server will show 250,000 active pilots on a regular basis. If we do not find a reasonable solution to the problem. I fear we will make that block to fat. Production will go too far. People will get tired of waiting to make more than 5-10 million isk an hour.

And there is the argument that as numbers increase the cost and demand will follow in a steady balancing act that we have seen in the past. But what we can also expect is that the time for the balance to take effect will be on a more unimaginable scale as well. As we are talking about a population spike much higher. Which means less miners waiting for things to balance out, more bot accounts that become harder to ban, and a lot more reprocessed items.

This is in part hypothetical and real game experience. No matter how we face this issue. Eventually we will have to alter or at least tinker withing mining. All in all I feel a system replacing it that is more easily tampered with than buffing and nerfing yield, would be ideal. Not all players have the patience and dedication of waiting months to years for the scales to tip. Or become accustomed to funds allowing them to pvp, or keep pace in other activities. Such as ratting, incursions, or missions, for income instead.

Something clever

Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#47 - 2014-01-19 18:00:17 UTC
This idea has merit if tweaked...

Upon arriving in an asteroid belt, a miner will pick out his asteroid and secure his ship onto it. Then the mining barge will enter into a siege mode where his ore hold is increased at the expense of his tank. The miner then needs to enter into walking in ship mode, where he will walk down a long hallway towards the mining interface. Upon arriving in the mining operations room, he will stay at his keyboard while he commands his mining lasers. He will constantly have to man the controls to keep the frequencies correct. If he goes afk, there is a real risk that things will break on his ship and the ship will blow up, spewing ore. Once he is done mining, and leaves siege mode, the ship will enter into an ore compression stage which will last 5-10 minutes. At this point, he flies off to a station to unload, and repeats the whole process again. Optionally, he can allow others to take ore freely from his ore hold. This option would allow all players to remove ore if engaged.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.

RAIN Arthie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-01-19 18:03:45 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:
This idea has merit if tweaked...

Upon arriving in an asteroid belt, a miner will pick out his asteroid and secure his ship onto it. Then the mining barge will enter into a siege mode where his ore hold is increased at the expense of his tank. The miner then needs to enter into walking in ship mode, where he will walk down a long hallway towards the mining interface. Upon arriving in the mining operations room, he will stay at his keyboard while he commands his mining lasers. He will constantly have to man the controls to keep the frequencies correct. If he goes afk, there is a real risk that things will break on his ship and the ship will blow up, spewing ore. Once he is done mining, and leaves siege mode, the ship will enter into an ore compression stage which will last 5-10 minutes. At this point, he flies off to a station to unload, and repeats the whole process again. Optionally, he can allow others to take ore freely from his ore hold. This option would allow all players to remove ore if engaged.


No.
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#49 - 2014-01-19 18:23:44 UTC
RAIN Arthie wrote:
Erotica 1 wrote:
This idea has merit if tweaked...

Upon arriving in an asteroid belt, a miner will pick out his asteroid and secure his ship onto it. Then the mining barge will enter into a siege mode where his ore hold is increased at the expense of his tank. The miner then needs to enter into walking in ship mode, where he will walk down a long hallway towards the mining interface. Upon arriving in the mining operations room, he will stay at his keyboard while he commands his mining lasers. He will constantly have to man the controls to keep the frequencies correct. If he goes afk, there is a real risk that things will break on his ship and the ship will blow up, spewing ore. Once he is done mining, and leaves siege mode, the ship will enter into an ore compression stage which will last 5-10 minutes. At this point, he flies off to a station to unload, and repeats the whole process again. Optionally, he can allow others to take ore freely from his ore hold. This option would allow all players to remove ore if engaged.


No.


Yes.

And for more great ideas about mining, see www.minerbumping.com Eve's premier mining website.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#50 - 2014-01-19 20:26:41 UTC
Digital Messiah wrote:
Would it destroy eve? Would the change from botters to Asteroid interaction make for a better eve? How do you think this would change EVE.

After playing this game for almost 8 years I feel we are in dire need to rework a highly exploited and semi afk game play that gains the least reward of any other activity for play time.


Umm, if asteroid mining worked like PI then it would be even more AFK, wouldn't it?

That being said, I'd like it, actually. Original SWG did exactly that - you could go out and sample resources yourself (like EvE mining) or you could find a rich deposit and plant a harvester on top of it, load it with fuel, and just kick back for a few days while it chugged along on it's own (like EvE PI).

In fact, having such a system in EvE would actually create the push for "Moar PvP" that the peanut gallery is always crying for. Because if mining was 100% automated for reals then all the people who are currently doing all the mining (and that's a lot of people) would have more free time, more ships, and more stuff. In other words, when the risk drops to nothing even the risk-adverse jump in.

Meaning: If I had automatic harvesters in belts hoovering up asteroids the same that way nullbears work their moon-goo magic then I'd take losing battleships as casually as those people do, because replacing those loses would only take as long as it took me to empty the harvesters, feed a BPO into a factory slot and barf out a new one.

TLDR: Liberate the miners from the need to mine and they'd probably turn into PvPers.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

ElQuirko
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
#51 - 2014-01-19 21:10:22 UTC
I... I like that idea. PI-ning. But you have to be there and interacting at all times, so obviously the reward times are shorter.

Dodixie > Hek

Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#52 - 2014-01-19 21:17:36 UTC
Regardless of the exact change implemented, CCP should also create an intermission of the mining session every 5 mins or so with important messages from sponsors. You would need to click a button to continue within 5 seconds or lose the last 10 minutes of ore. The New Order would be happy to be the first sponsor. CCP just needs to contact James 315 to work out terms.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.

Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#53 - 2014-01-19 21:28:35 UTC
Yes I actually love ice mining the way it is, it is my "niche" , and you MUST semi-afk ice mine, otherwise you'd be bored, yet semi

afk ice mining suits me great, I don't have time to sit all day at the monitor wasting my life away on a video game,

since that obviously leads to low self esteem and depression, as numerous studies of video game addicts have shown, not to

mention obesity Roll

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †  

Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#54 - 2014-01-19 21:56:41 UTC
What silly miners have to understand is that taking the afk out of mining will likely make them more isk if they continue mining actively (the bots and bot aspirants stop mining), unless CCP makes the interaction so damn fun that everyone wants to be a miner of course. But I doubt that.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.

Anomaly One
Doomheim
#55 - 2014-01-19 22:01:40 UTC
Artemis Ellery Sazas wrote:
I just love how all these non-miners that haven't mined since they were noobs hate mining and demand it needs to be changed. I like mining, I can easily spend hours mining and enjoy every second of it. I find it very relaxing after a stressful day in RL.

If players like the New Order doesn't like mining, then too bad. Ganking is far more afk than mining is. Fit ship, find target, overheat and shoot for 15 seconds, get blown up by Concord, sit in station for 10-12 minutes while aggression timer stops, repeat steps. Yipppeeee!

Mining, except for the new ore sites, is one of the few things that work in EVE perfectly fine. I still prefer the old method of finding grav sites though. I think CCP have far more important issues on their plate right now than mining. Blink


pretty funny huh :p

"I don't like mining! let's change it!"
"agree!"
"huzzah!"


"I don't like x in pvp let's change i..."
"lol noob gtfo"
"HTFU!"
"go back to mining >"

Roll

Never forget. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_ZjVyRxx4 Trust me, I'm an Anomaly. DUST 514 FOR PC

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2014-01-19 23:04:24 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Artemis Ellery Sazas wrote:
I just love how all these non-miners that haven't mined since they were noobs hate mining and demand it needs to be changed. I like mining, I can easily spend hours mining and enjoy every second of it. I find it very relaxing after a stressful day in RL.

If players like the New Order doesn't like mining, then too bad. Ganking is far more afk than mining is. Fit ship, find target, overheat and shoot for 15 seconds, get blown up by Concord, sit in station for 10-12 minutes while aggression timer stops, repeat steps. Yipppeeee!

Mining, except for the new ore sites, is one of the few things that work in EVE perfectly fine. I still prefer the old method of finding grav sites though. I think CCP have far more important issues on their plate right now than mining. Blink


I would suggest that the player who warps to someone and blows them up, is considerably more at the keyboard than someone who didn't dock up with 3+ reds in local.



Mining and New Order ganking are both minimum skill carebear activities. Neither occupy the moral high ground.

TBH I have no problem with people with a busy life and kids AFK mining, it gives me cheaper mats for my AFK industrial toons :D

Siegfried Tahl
STCorp
#57 - 2014-01-20 00:34:31 UTC
EVE Fanfest 2013 ArrowPrototyping the Future of EVEArrow 16:20-21:55
Three prototypes of a mining minigame with spew-roids chopping off/collecting, and minecraft-like.
Not claimed as future plans or work in progess, purely a testing thing.
Naydra Adni
Doomheim
#58 - 2014-01-20 12:12:50 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:
I'm a little tea cup
short and stout
James slathers his sack with mayonnaise and
dips it in my mouth...



does he get a double dip for playing your game?
:)
Haedonism Bot
Revolutionary Front
#59 - 2014-01-20 12:35:06 UTC
Put all the ice in lowsec.

Then make asteroids randomly explode from time to time causing skiff-killing area of effect damage to anyone in the belt. Some sort of early warning system could alert the miners before this happens and give them a fair amount of time to warp to safety (say 30 seconds).

Make all these changes for a week, unannounced, just long enough for all of us to appreciate the delicious miner tears, then change everything back to normal.Big smile

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!

Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#60 - 2014-01-21 18:40:13 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Ive replied to similar posts before. I think some things are overlooked when people look specifically at mining.

1. Good game design allows not only for different things to do but different play styles including degree of interaction required. PI for instance, set it up come back in a couple days and profit, mining slow and steady game play, pvp bursts of high activity followed by inactivity or low activity (loot grab, ship repair, travel to next pvp conflict). We need all these different 'tempos' as I like to call them so that all types of players can find a niche for themselves in our big crazy space game.

2. I think we all understand that different 'risk' levels are important in EVE and mining, especially in high sec is one of the lowest risk activities you can do.

3. Easy of start up is another plus for mining, perhaps as you start to become the Ol' Veteran you forget how confusing many of EVEs game playing options where when you first started and how mining presented itself as an easy to understand beginner profession.

4. If you find mining boring the solution is obvious find a new profession EVE has a lot of them.


1. Good game design requires players to actually play the game periodically. PI requires some strategy and planning. Mining requires you to come back to the computer, click once. Drag ore to the station, click undock, click warp to asteroid field, approach a rock and hit f1. That's a total of 7 mouse clicks, 1 drag and drop, and 1 keystroke. I don't notice any strategy there. Its better when there's a fleet involved, but any activity that only requires thinking when multiboxing needs to be looked at.

2. Lets fix this

3. Easy start up makes it a trap for new players to fall into for awhile before getting bored and quitting. I do not disagree about complexity of any new system being an issue. If anything were implemented, it would need a simultaneous rework (and extremely heavy testing) of the tutorials.

4. Or you could join the new order and make mining less boring for the masses. It pains me every time I gank someone, but I take heart knowing that I have improved his gameplay experience.


5. There's a reason the New Order uses the term "bot-aspirant". We won't claim that all miners are botters as that is blatantly false. Instead we try to point out that an activity that does not require your attention to preform, and only requires a trivial amount of attention periodically to maintain, is very similar to botting, and should be discouraged. Unlike other groups, we choose to provide the discouragement ourselves through bumping and ganking instead of just complaining on the forums about it being broken.


1. lock miner, push attack button, alpha in one hit. Clearly there isn't enough button pushing in this activity and so it should be removed from the game.

2. There is a high sec activity with much less risk than mining, it is called miner bumping and I whole heartedly agree it should be eliminated.

3. Calling mining a trap is just a bias on your part, nothing more. I started as a miner and I'm nearing maxing out every mining skill the game has, it was no trap for me and there are plenty of others that find mining enjoyable. That you cannot fathom someone liking mining is the problem and the root of your bias.

4. Again, lock target, alpha. two buttons so clearly this game play takes no real effort and should be removed from the game.

5. You claim to be only concerned that miners are afk, yet from personal interaction with your organization i can assure you that even when it is beyond clear that I am not in fact afk, you still persist in bumping my vessel repeatedly.

So, since everyone playing EVE knows what your group is all about lets just call it what it is, extortion and move on shall we.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.