EVE General Discussion

Really bugs me when peeps call miners botters....

Why do you care what other people do in the game?

Miners can stare at space rocks all day for all I care. I don't do it; but if they enjoy it, then more power to them.

I would like to see a mini-game integrated into the process to stop purely AFK and bot-like behavior. Note that AFK miner-botting is quite rare. Most are indeed at the helm chatting in the areas I pass through.

I see no need in hijacking a 90+ day training path into the equivalent of purely passive PI style lameness. Let's add *FUN* and add interaction, not remove it.

Because this entire thread is based on the hypothetical of making mining more like PI.

i.e. passive.

In which case anyone could do it with just some initial effort.

I was talking about this hypothetical. And said the market could crash.

You asked that if my theory is true, then why hasn't the market crashed already?

So what you did, was take my conclusion to a hypothetical premise and called it false.

Which is a logical fallacy because the scenario does not exist.

And so I said that if you're telling me to prove that I'm right by showing you the market crashes that have occurred you're implying that the scenario I was describing in my first post had already happened.

I can probably explain it even more convolutedly, if you'd like. But I really think that most people undestood it.

1. Good game design requires players to actually play the game periodically. PI requires some strategy and planning. Mining requires you to come back to the computer, click once. Drag ore to the station, click undock, click warp to asteroid field, approach a rock and hit f1. That's a total of 7 mouse clicks, 1 drag and drop, and 1 keystroke. I don't notice any strategy there. Its better when there's a fleet involved, but any activity that only requires thinking when multiboxing needs to be looked at.

2. Lets fix this

3. Easy start up makes it a trap for new players to fall into for awhile before getting bored and quitting. I do not disagree about complexity of any new system being an issue. If anything were implemented, it would need a simultaneous rework (and extremely heavy testing) of the tutorials.

4. Or you could join the new order and make mining less boring for the masses. It pains me every time I gank someone, but I take heart knowing that I have improved his gameplay experience.


There's a reason the New Order uses the term "bot-aspirant". We won't claim that all miners are botters as that is blatantly false. Instead we try to point out that an activity that does not require your attention to preform, and only requires a trivial amount of attention periodically to maintain, is very similar to botting, and should be discouraged. Unlike other groups, we choose to provide the discouragement ourselves through bumping and ganking instead of just complaining on the forums about it being broken.

-1 to the mini-game: (again) Mining already requires an insane amount of multi-tasking and math just to maintain a desirable level of efficiency. Folks who are mining afk do not care about efficiency. All miners do not earn isk at a constant or equal rate. 4 of the 6 mining ships in the game cannot mine efficiently without player involvement beyond 2 cycles and each ship type mines at a different rate. If you see a ship sitting in a belt doing nothing, bump it. That dude is afk. (But honestly, that dude should be ganked - not bumped.) However, if a ship is actively mining (or even better, actively mining in a system with no stations) - that dude either isn't afk or hasn't been afk for very long. Folks advocating for mini-games for sure aren't multiboxing or must be bored mining 'super-roids' in 'super-safe' null space. This is a terrible idea and it isn't getting any less terrible the more times it's introduced by people who apparently don't mine. If I could only mine efficiently by playing a mini-game, I would have no use for all accounts beyond this one. Multiply that by everyone else in a similar situation and I'm sure you'll quickly realize why this idea will never hit TQ.

-1 to claiming asteroids/belts: It has already been established that mining, like everything else in this game is pvp. But it is market pvp and doesn't involve beam lasers or missles. It's a mindgame. You're trying to outthink someone. If those guys were interested in combat pvp, they most likely wouldn't be mining. It's fine that people want to increase the amount of high-sec conflict drivers, but forcing miners to all become combat pilots isn't the way to do it. Suspect timers on exhumers for targeting my roid? Oh yeah. Great. Just reintroduce can flipping if you want to aggro miners. When someone targets a roid I'm mining, my response is to turn all my lasers onto every roid that person targets until they get frustrated and leave. They already have the option to wardec my corp, bounty me or gank me for my behavior. I see no reason they should be able to destroy my ships free and clear. And if they could, it sure isn't a buff to mining. You cannot force risk-averse players to become risk takers by starving them - and you cannot do it by bullwhipping them either. Miners already have to survey systems before commencing operations because belts respawn in reduced quantities. No large mining corp can exist in a single system now. I'm a peon and I mine in 3 regions. Most of my corpmates each mine in their own systems because each of us is capable of wrecking a system on our own. Now I need to have combat support everywhere I go? If this change is implemented, all belts should respawn fully-loaded and with increased volumes until they burst from being so 'super.' At least that way one system could support all of us and I'd have help at the ready. Otherwise, this is just a let's **** on the miners idea - again.

imo.

YK

EDIT: For the sake of clarity, I have, in the past, advocated for miners to be given tools that would allow them options other than escape being their most desirable outcome from a pvp encounter. I still maintain this position but when re-reading what I wrote, I guess I can see how "forcing all miners to become combat pilots" may have been unclear. I do not think granting suspect flags for mining the wrong rock qualifies as such a tool. It, at best, seems far more likely to be a way for combat pvp'ers to exploit miners into losing their ships w/o cost/risk, so I was forced to disagree with this particular suggestion. Opposing this suggestion doesn't mean that I disagree with the idea in principle. I wouldn't want what I wrote to be interpreted that I somehow disagree that high sec needs more conflict drivers. It does.

pls no mini games for mining..

i'd like some deployable ore holds though (small m3)

You mean like bumping & ganking require hardly any attention to do & maintain (queue claims of how it's highly intensive).
Mining is a small subset of industry, there is nothing wrong with low intensity tasks, not everything should be a mad scramble for life & death, especially when it is only a small subset of an entire profession

Adding or adjusting the mining mechanics to benefit 'active' mining and penalise afk or bot mining would be welcome, however it's achieved.

There's plenty of bottling in null already. Especially renter space. You don't see it because they have 10 large bubbles on gate and a bot scout in the next system. As soon as anything appears in local in the scout system the miners dock up. They're impossible to catch.

I just love how all these non-miners that haven't mined since they were noobs hate mining and demand it needs to be changed. I like mining, I can easily spend hours mining and enjoy every second of it. I find it very relaxing after a stressful day in RL.

If players like the New Order doesn't like mining, then too bad. Ganking is far more afk than mining is. Fit ship, find target, overheat and shoot for 15 seconds, get blown up by Concord, sit in station for 10-12 minutes while aggression timer stops, repeat steps. Yipppeeee!

Mining, except for the new ore sites, is one of the few things that work in EVE perfectly fine. I still prefer the old method of finding grav sites though. I think CCP have far more important issues on their plate right now than mining.