Ships & Modules

All this "if you want to do it, then you can do it" is for another thread. Here its about whether you SHOULD want to do it or not based on whether it is worth it irrespective of your feelings. And from a mining yield bonus standpoint, you need over 700 hours mining with a Hulk before you SHOULD want to train Exhumer V, but if you are never going to mine that much, you SHOULD NOT want to train Exhumer V to get more ore. Austin McLaren however, added to this discussion by pointing out that lowering risk may make it worth it, because if we assume you are ganked and lose a 200M ship every 4000M ore you mine, with Exhumer IV, then exhumer V may make it so you mine 200M more ore before you are successfully ganked. So you get 4200M isk worth of ore per Hulk instead of 4000M, which means you essentially have more mining yield (we assume you make the Hulk yourself so your mining yield is X minus whatever you use to make the Hulk. X is the amount you mine before losing a Hulk. If you went from 4000M X to 4200M X then you would have increased your yield by 5%, in addition to the 3% yield of Exhumer V. But You'd need to use your own Hulk loss data or the average X that Hulk miners have in Eve to calculate the real X).

Wanting to scratch ones mosquito-bite does not mean you should want to scratch it. Nor does it mean that you gain from scratching it. It may in fact hurt you scratch it (infections and whatnot). Translated into Exhumer V, it may have negative effects to you to train it if you do not mine enough to make a healthy return on investment.

If you are one of those who follow their emotions like a crazy Vulcan then economic planning through mathematical models is obviously not for you. So why on earth are you here in this thread? (not aimed at anyone specific)

You're getting there. But here's a rundown of the points I think are most relevant to the decision:

1.) As was said before, how much more you actually mine (look at the margin by itself), and consider how much that SP costs (time/subscription cost/anything else relevant to you).

2.) As you mentioned, factor in losses not connected to skill training by subtracting from the main amount, while keeping the margin the same size.

3.) Consider how the value of your training time deprecates over time. As you train the skills you want, you start to train the skills you sort of want, and so on. At some point, Exhumers V will be worth training if you're already at Exhumers IV and still subscribed. You've just got to decide when that is.

4.) If mining is what you find fun or it is what gives you a feeling of accomplishment, then maybe training Exhumers V has value to you merely in completing it. Think back on what it was like for you to train Mining Barge V. Consider how much less you like mining now than when you started, look at how much you have left to accomplish as a miner, and admit to yourself that at some point down the road you will not be as interested in mining as you are now. What kind of backup training do you already have, and how soon are you likely to rely on it? Do you have tech II training in other ships? Do you need it? Maybe it will be fun to start your next style at tech I and work your way up, maybe you want to jump in at the top.

5.) Lastly, you've got to consider if training Exhumers at all is actually worth it. Consider the difference in income between an exhumer and a mining barge, and consider how much you lose in ganks either way. Consider the difference in tank and fittings, and also admit to yourself that a tanked barge/exhumer will never know about passing gankers who secretly looked at your tank and moved on. You may be able to maximize your output in spite of your tank and get more net profit; this is easier when the ship is cheaper.

==========
I am aware of all of these complex mathematical relationships which can determine exactly which one is more important for me, but the differences are strong enough that I can estimate pretty easily. I have never flown an exhumer, and the first time I do, it will be because it is something I haven't done yet. I barely mine enough for profit, I certainly don't mine enough to profit off an exhumer. I also like to move around and mine in new areas. Rather than bring my barge with me, I get a new barge for a new area and leave the old one behind. I may use it again later. Also, I like to change up the barge type now and then. Sometimes it's a procurer, sometimes it's a retriever. It's generally not a covetor because the small mining yield bonus from that is lost in the time I put in to moving the ore more often, not to mention the energy I personally spend by watching my mining more keenly. Then again, covetor would be my barge of choice were I mining in a fleet with hauling support, and I were not AFK anyway. It may also be a good choice in New Order space, since you need to be present at your keyboard anyway. I don't know how their rules take to dumping ore in cans.

I hope this helps you make your decision.

You do realise your miner has to stop miing if you do not dump a PLEX on it for it to still be allowed online to mine that 700 mill worth of ore right? It's not like you can stop paying the sub once it's completed and still have it in space to mine... Each account will be PLEXed so they can keep mining but you will also have SP getting added to every single active toon on those account so Exhumer V will be the only "usefull" skill you can get unless you have future plan for those miner alts.

Once all your yield skill are maxed out, Exhumer V is the only thing you can train that has any value to what you do unless you ahve other plans. If you only plan on mining, the skill queu might as well be filled with it than anythign else giving you 0 benefit.

You have a good point. There's a lot of skills that will help fly ships better in Eve. This is the one thing I like about the game. If you could train all skills in a year or two I would've quit Eve a long time ago. I like the fact that I'm always improving my pilots.


I'm not against using spreadsheets but comparing skill training time to PLEX does seem silly. Of course I play a more casual style than most focusing on having fun rather than maximum efficiency. My wallet balance reflects this


If you look at the Exhumer skill bonus compared to other ship bonuses the 1% to 3% per level does seem a bit shortchanged to many 10% per level bonuses of other ships. Of course at this point I'm not sure if CCP could change it without upsetting a lot of Exhumer pilots that only have the skill at 4. You can't simply just change the bonus from 3% to 10% without lowering the base because that would cause market issues.



BTW Tactical Shield Manipulation 5 doesn't really help and I've heard from some that it can actually have a negative effect. You need it at 4 so you can fit T2 modules but that's where most leave it at.

OP, you need to realize that you are bringing up very, very unusual cases.

The vast majority of players do not use a PLEX for dual character training, nor are they training up pilots for the purpose of selling them. Those are the two cases where PLEX-> SPs.

For everyone else, they are not paying for SPs. Everyone else is paying (whether by PLEX or credit card) to PLAY THE GAME. For us, we are paying to have access to the server and to do whatever we want to in the game. One of the side benefits of being a loyal CCP customer is that we get to allocate skillpoints to whatever skills we feel like. What do I think I will be doing in the future? That is what I will be putting my SPs towards.

For the record, I have Exhumers IV, though I have not sat in one for about 3 years. However, I am not arrogant enough to tell people they are playing the game wrong if they train differently than me.

Except for Tactical Shield Manipulation! That skill actually decreases your tank the higher level you have it trained. You are playing the game wrong if you train it to 5.

And then what after that? Are we assuming he will quit mining in a few months? Refinery skill could all be done on a single one and same for the freighter stuff. He said he wants to go multi account anyway so at some point, it will be either Exhumer V or something 100% unrelated to mining and having a few alts, it will come fast unless he does stuff that makes no sense like trianing more than 1 refiner and maybe 2 hauler if he gets enough volume to move. Thats at most 3 of his account. Anything higher will only need processing to IV for the crystals on T2 strip miners. He might now be at that point right now but he will down the road get to the point where the SP is best invested there than anything else unless he plans to do something else than mining.

If he does have other plan, then it will be absed on what he value the most between 1.8xxx% yield while mining or whatever any other skill would give him on his other carrer path.

Shield uniformity is the penalty. I heard a rumor that the skill is bugged, that training it to 5 actually puts you at only 80% uniformity.

Don't forget that the price of Plex has for a long time had a strong correlation to the value of highsec ore.

Both have max boosts/implants in a Hulk

203,520m3 per hour with V

198,240m3 per hour with IV

If you can mine in a good setup and have someone who guards against rats then you can start to add in the mighty yield of Mining Drone IIs.

Wait I'm on my phone so I don't want to go through the OP's long posts but is he training two characters on the same account to mine??? You can only be logged on one at a time so if that's true I'm confused as to why...