These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

Forum Index

EVE Forums » EVE Gameplay Center » Ships & Modules » Vargur vs Golem after rubicon

Topic is locked indefinitely.

Vargur vs Golem after rubicon
Author

Previous Topic Next Topic

Sid Crash

Likes received: 140

#21 - 2014-01-13 17:26:41 UTC

Anya Klibor wrote:

Speaking from my own experiences and not those of others, my Vargur using 800s did not have problems engaging targets out to roughly 96 kms. At 57 km and using RF EMP I was hitting for solid damage, very rarely getting anything less than a "hits" report. Little grazing or anything. Making blanket statements doesn't help your argument.

For reference, my fit:

[Vargur, Mission/PvP]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Domination Tracking Enhancer
Damage Control II

Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
Republic Fleet 100MN Microwarpdrive
Imperial Navy Cap Recharger
Imperial Navy Cap Recharger

800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Bastion Module I
Salvager II
Salvager II
Salvager II

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II

Hammerhead II x5

At 50km your fit does about 50% of max damage (as you're deep in falloff) against a BS target, so your "I get fantastic hits" is factually untrue. Also, anyone using faction cap rechargers while not having CPU issues shouldn't be regarded as being amazing and knowledgeable at fitting ships. Also "lol Pith-X".

Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 874
Anya Klibor Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic Likes received: 874	#22 - 2014-01-13 18:42:36 UTC What you just said is you can't read. Gotcha'. Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.

stoicfaux

Likes received: 6,283

#23 - 2014-01-14 04:12:00 UTC

Anya Klibor wrote:

What you just said is you can't read. Gotcha'.

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turret_Damage#Damage_loss_from_Falloff_and_Tracking

At 57km, you're only doing ~40% of your DPS. Which is why I put three TCs with optimal scripts on my Vargur.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Anize Oramara

WarpTooZero

Likes received: 885

#24 - 2014-01-14 10:48:55 UTC

the advatage of the vargur is it is very adaptable to the mission or task you use it for. 800s woth short range ammo for rats that orbit at closer than 40km (70km falloff) barrage for angels (some can spawn far away) and arty for rats that orbit at 45km or further. you have the insta popping frigs as well. its not the best at running sansha blockade but it is better than the pally running angel while still able to run blockade fine.

nothing beats a pally in wh though.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Batelle

Federal Navy Academy

Likes received: 2,629

#25 - 2014-01-14 13:24:28 UTC

i would guess because the vargur has the worst range issues with 800s, that you would try to use siege mode more as sparingly as possible, in order to spend more time getting into range.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Rab See

Stellar Dynamics

Likes received: 123

#26 - 2014-01-14 13:32:52 UTC

Anya Klibor wrote:

Your idea of solid damage vs mine is obviously light years apart. At 96k you will be getting maybe 300/500 hits at that range. The occasional good 900 and the more likely miss/400. Ive tested fits similar to this and know. With another arty vargur next to me its obvious the arty wins by a large margin even though DPS on paper is a lot lower.

Odithias graphs are very good illustrations of the strengths and weaknesses. With your fit I would always be burning to target - 35k or closer in my Vargur. But if the rats move away as you jump to bastion then its a PITA. Golem gets nice consistent application, Paladin wins for DPS. Kronos suffers like the vargur.

Kagura Nikon

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 2,148

#27 - 2014-01-14 14:44:21 UTC | Edited by: Kagura Nikon

Anya Klibor wrote:

LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:

Lirs Corum wrote:

So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur.

Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower.

Right?

cruisers go down quickly to precision cruise missiles. frigates pop to smartbombs. its the battleships that are a problem, but furies apply full damage, whereas vargur grazes a lot beyond 50km.

At that range you will be doing 1/8th of the damage a paladin would be doing...

4 tachyon T2
2 tractor
1 salvager
1 bastion

1 Good AB or MWD dependign on mission
1 MJD
2 cap recharger t2

3 HEat SInk T2
1 DC II
1 MAR II (yes that is ENOUGH to tank any mission)
2 EANM T2 /or hardeners dependign on mission

2 T1 CCC

Voilá.. cap stable even.. so no fear of disconnection whiel in bastion.

Massive hangle. Almost same dps at poitn blank than a vargur.. but at 56 km FAR FAR better effective DPS.

Can Use X-RAY at 107 km

CHEAP.... and far more powerful than your overpriced vargur.

"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"

Anize Oramara

WarpTooZero

Likes received: 885

#28 - 2014-01-15 17:33:35 UTC

Kagura Nikon wrote:

Anya Klibor wrote:

LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:

Lirs Corum wrote:

So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur.

Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower.

Right?

cruisers go down quickly to precision cruise missiles. frigates pop to smartbombs. its the battleships that are a problem, but furies apply full damage, whereas vargur grazes a lot beyond 50km.

If you are not fitting T2 pulse on a paladin you are doing it very VERY wrong.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2,014
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation Likes received: 2,014	#29 - 2014-01-15 21:06:18 UTC Anize Oramara wrote: If you are not fitting T2 pulse on a paladin you are doing it very VERY wrong. After having made the switch from Pulse to tachs I can't say I completely agree.

Morrigan LeSante

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,562

#30 - 2014-01-15 21:36:39 UTC

Odithia wrote:

Lirs Corum wrote:

Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions?

All gunboat with short range weaponand 1 unloaded tracking comp.
Cruise Golem with 2 painter
4 Damage mod for everyone

Dark Blue Golem
Cyan Kronos
Red Paladin
Green Vargur

short range faction ammo
http://imgur.com/mepYhyW

long range t2 ammo
http://imgur.com/YrP2aaU

I take it the golem drop off is TP into falloff?

Cipher Jones

The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars

Likes received: 1,292

#31 - 2014-01-15 21:37:02 UTC

People have failed to grasp the fact that maruaders can now jumo INTO the fight and not just out of it.

Both are great for missions, both are great for wormholes, the potential for loss in a WH is not worth risking it unless you have a pro fleet, if you have a pro fleet you dont need a marauder to clear the hole.

**** the forums for eating the second half of my well articulated post.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Kagura Nikon

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 2,148

#32 - 2014-01-16 09:25:54 UTC

Anize Oramara wrote:

Kagura Nikon wrote:

Anya Klibor wrote:

LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:

Lirs Corum wrote:

So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur.

Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower.

Right?

cruisers go down quickly to precision cruise missiles. frigates pop to smartbombs. its the battleships that are a problem, but furies apply full damage, whereas vargur grazes a lot beyond 50km.

If you are not fitting T2 pulse on a paladin you are doing it very VERY wrong.

Nope.. if you are fittign PULSe than YOU are doign it very very wrong. Tachyons have a far superior damage projection. I acn do MOre damage with MF at same range that you use Scorch.

I did both, tested, collected numbers, and Pulse Paladins are an idiotic choice if compared to tachyons ones.

"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"

Odithia

Ministry of War

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 86

#33 - 2014-01-16 10:38:57 UTC

Morrigan LeSante wrote:

Odithia wrote:

Lirs Corum wrote:

Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions?

I take it the golem drop off is TP into falloff?

Yes, 1 mark is 90%, 2nd is 80% chances of success. You probably can get better results at longer range with 3 TP but those are hard to fit and I wanted to get similar fit on all ships (same tank, same number of dmg mod).

Kagura Nikon

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 2,148

#34 - 2014-01-16 14:24:49 UTC

Odithia wrote:

Lirs Corum wrote:

Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions?

Why to use fail short range weapons? Put 4 T2 tachyons with 4 damage mods on a paladin and NAVY MF ammo.. with correct implants 1 K dps at 65km.

"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"

Odithia

Ministry of War

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 86

#35 - 2014-01-16 15:43:44 UTC | Edited by: Odithia

Kagura Nikon wrote:

Odithia wrote:

Lirs Corum wrote:

Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions?

Why to use fail short range weapons? Put 4 T2 tachyons with 4 damage mods on a paladin and NAVY MF ammo.. with correct implants 1 K dps at 65km.

The point was to have similar fit on all ships.
I post updated graph with long range weapons later today.

... And add the ishtars for lulz


Odithia Ministry of War Amarr Empire Likes received: 86	#36 - 2014-01-16 19:12:59 UTC \| Edited by: Odithia Dark Blue Golem Cyan Kronos Red Paladin Green Vargur Pink Ishtar (Garde II, 4 dmg mod, 1 track, not rigged) http://imgur.com/F8dCnva (long range weapons, short range ammo for everyone)

Rab See

Stellar Dynamics

Likes received: 123

#37 - 2014-01-16 19:56:18 UTC

Odithia wrote:

Dark Blue Golem
Cyan Kronos
Red Paladin
Green Vargur
Pink Ishtar (Garde II, 4 dmg mod, 1 track, not rigged)

http://imgur.com/F8dCnva

(short range ammo for everyone)

Yup - Ishtar - the joke that nobody laughs at. Fields small, medium and large weapons - all damage types and serious range if you want it. Whats not to like.

Nb - it can cope with every mission I use it in, more DPS applied than the vargur for sure.

Anize Oramara

WarpTooZero

Likes received: 885

#38 - 2014-01-16 23:53:08 UTC

Kagura Nikon wrote:

Odithia wrote:

Lirs Corum wrote:

Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions?

Why to use fail short range weapons? Put 4 T2 tachyons with 4 damage mods on a paladin and NAVY MF ammo.. with correct implants 1 K dps at 65km.

Meanwhile T2 pulse with 4 damage mods on paladin with just 2 implants you get 989k turret dps at 98km OPTIMAL with scorch and 1385 dps up to 33km with conflag all the while having better tracking and CAP STABLE with a 712 dps OMNI tank.

Best part is you have three TCs you can refit to tracking or mixed depending on range and target ships.

Oh and those stats are with only the damage mods faciton, rest is ALL T2.

T2 pulse is bullshit OP on Paladin.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

stoicfaux

Likes received: 6,283

#39 - 2014-01-17 02:44:26 UTC

Rab See wrote:

Odithia wrote:

Dark Blue Golem
Cyan Kronos
Red Paladin
Green Vargur
Pink Ishtar (Garde II, 4 dmg mod, 1 track, not rigged)

http://imgur.com/F8dCnva

(short range ammo for everyone)

Omnis are getting nerfed. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=313116&find=unread

T2 Omni numbers: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4116858#post4116858

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Rexxorr

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 92

#40 - 2014-01-17 05:43:57 UTC

I like using the T2 pulse on my paladin.

Faster pulse cycle time clears frigs/dest/bc that much faster.
Smaller faster volleys means less wasted over kill dps.
Scorch has fantastic range with instant damage.
Close targets ~30k conflag is just brutal.
TC in my mids allow for better tracking or even more optimum range.

Pulse paladin is the strongest lvl 4 marauder imo. (with angel npc I use a vargur)

Previous page123Next page

Ships & Modules

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

WarpTooZero

Federal Navy Academy

Stellar Dynamics

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Perkone

Caldari State

The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars

Ministry of War

Amarr Empire

Perkone

Caldari State