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Exhumer V, is it worth training?
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#21 - 2014-01-15 11:46:56 UTC
lmao, never heard someone valueing skill levels with PLEXes haha.
Hint: you're wrong, you are turning in PLEX for your game time, skills are free :>
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2014-01-15 12:24:44 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
the op's view is extremely narrow; isolating variables in a large equation, evaluating them and judging them without taking into account anything that impacts them or what it will impact. making wild conjectures and assumptions based on the flimsiest pseudo logic and quack math.

op, it is extremely simple, why train exumer v on a mining toon?

pay attention now because you seem to miss this every time:

BECAUSE THERES NOTHING ELSE TO TRAIN TO INCREASE YIELD.

we done now?


If you have a mining alt on the same account as your main character then why would you pay for 1 extra plex of dual character training just to get 3% more yield which takes 700 hours of your time to earn back? 700 hours without Exhumer V would pay for 33 months gametime that you can spend being entertained by Eve. 700 hours with Exhumer V would pay for 34 months gametime that you can spend being entertained by Eve.
I am not saying people should not train Exhumer V, I am sure there are people who mine enough to make a profit on it in just a couple years on all their toons and then multi-box a dozen hulks and plex all their accounts and buy a Titan with the profits. But I am also sure that you would have to mine for 700 hours with a hulk with orca boosts to make up the investment, so you may as well invest it in a mining barge toon instead. Though once you have two accounts you are no longer a causal player and almost have to mine every month to plex your accounts, otherwise it will quickly become a very costly game over time.

Robert, "never heard someone valueing skill levels with PLEXes" - really? I wouldn't have guessed :P Everything in eve is measured in PLEX, ships, loot, battles, toons (and when training toons, skills are measured in plexes).
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#23 - 2014-01-15 13:12:27 UTC
Ronny Hugo wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
the op's view is extremely narrow; isolating variables in a large equation, evaluating them and judging them without taking into account anything that impacts them or what it will impact. making wild conjectures and assumptions based on the flimsiest pseudo logic and quack math.

op, it is extremely simple, why train exumer v on a mining toon?

pay attention now because you seem to miss this every time:

BECAUSE THERES NOTHING ELSE TO TRAIN TO INCREASE YIELD.

we done now?


If you have a mining alt on the same account as your main character then why would you pay for 1 extra plex of dual character training just to get 3% more yield which takes 700 hours of your time to earn back? 700 hours without Exhumer V would pay for 33 months gametime that you can spend being entertained by Eve. 700 hours with Exhumer V would pay for 34 months gametime that you can spend being entertained by Eve.
I am not saying people should not train Exhumer V, I am sure there are people who mine enough to make a profit on it in just a couple years on all their toons and then multi-box a dozen hulks and plex all their accounts and buy a Titan with the profits. But I am also sure that you would have to mine for 700 hours with a hulk with orca boosts to make up the investment, so you may as well invest it in a mining barge toon instead. Though once you have two accounts you are no longer a causal player and almost have to mine every month to plex your accounts, otherwise it will quickly become a very costly game over time.

Robert, "never heard someone valueing skill levels with PLEXes" - really? I wouldn't have guessed :P Everything in eve is measured in PLEX, ships, loot, battles, toons (and when training toons, skills are measured in plexes).


you ask is exumer v worth training. we say yes in x situation it is worth it. you swoop in and proudly slap you shlong in everones face saying 'hah no you are all wrong in y situation it is not!'

are you mentally ********?

in eve the answer is always 'it depends on the situation'.

also measuring skills in plex is stupid. instead devide it by pie. everyone likes pie

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2014-01-15 13:38:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ronny Hugo
"you swoop in and proudly slap you shlong in everones face saying 'hah no you are all wrong in y situation it is not!'" - No, that is not what I am doing.
Is this where I put words in your mouth and put actions on your shoulders and then get the thread closed?

"in eve the answer is always 'it depends on the situation'."
While Exhumer V may be the optimum choice in some situation, for example if you want more ore to make stuff but can't be bothered to start another account, then exhumer V MAY BE the way to go. But that situation is only if you mine more than 700 hours with Hulk with Orca support in your time in Eve. But if you are not going to mine 700 hours with Hulk with Orca support during your time in Eve then you may as well sell that plex you would have spent on Exhumer V and buy 400 000 000 isk worth of ore (I assume people buy plex and then use that to run their accounts, instead of paying to get account time, that can not be turned into isk). Because then you have that extra ore you would have gotten from investing in Exhumer V. Only you turned the plex directly into Ore instead of into training time.
I have done this math precisely so people can judge when it is in their best interest to train Exhumer V, and when it is not in their best interest. I am not saying that it is never the right choice. I have time and time again said it is the right choice if you mine more than 700 hours with Hulk with Orca support on that toon.

To feed it with a teaspoon:
This is when the situation is right to train Exhumer V: When you will mine way more than 19 800 000 000 isk worth of ore.
This is when the situation is wrong to train Exhumer V: When you will not mine more than 19 800 000 000 isk worth of ore.
other factors can influence this slightly.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#25 - 2014-01-15 13:45:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Ronny Hugo wrote:

Robert, "never heard someone valueing skill levels with PLEXes" - really? I wouldn't have guessed :P Everything in eve is measured in PLEX, ships, loot, battles, toons (and when training toons, skills are measured in plexes).


this is a very weird attitude.

So you never going to maximize your skills for profession you've chosen for eve? What else would you skill instead while you're mining rocks? Something completely unrelated? Gunnery? Market stuff? Nothing at all because its not "worth" the PLEX you would spend anyways?
You would probably end up with a toon who can do many, many things but none of them properly.
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2014-01-15 14:08:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ronny Hugo
Robert Caldera wrote:
Ronny Hugo wrote:

Robert, "never heard someone valueing skill levels with PLEXes" - really? I wouldn't have guessed :P Everything in eve is measured in PLEX, ships, loot, battles, toons (and when training toons, skills are measured in plexes).


this is rtarded, obviously.
So you never going to maximize your skills for profession you've chosen for eve? What else would you skill instead while you're mining rocks? Something completely unrelated? Gunnery? Market stuff? Nothing at all because its not "worth" the PLEX you would spend anyways?
You would probably end up with a toon who can do many, many things but nothing properly.


"properly"? If my ship does 97-98% of its maximum capability because I have L4 gun specialization instead of L5, so be it. It is cheaper for me to give 25M isk (including fit) destroyers to some new pilot that then follows me around in PVE and PVP. Over 90% even pay me back when they have made 25M by rolling with me in L4 missions. Roll
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#27 - 2014-01-15 14:14:16 UTC
Ronny Hugo wrote:
"you swoop in and proudly slap you shlong in everones face saying 'hah no you are all wrong in y situation it is not!'" - No, that is not what I am doing.
Is this where I put words in your mouth and put actions on your shoulders and then get the thread closed?

"in eve the answer is always 'it depends on the situation'."
While Exhumer V may be the optimum choice in some situation, for example if you want more ore to make stuff but can't be bothered to start another account, then exhumer V MAY BE the way to go. But that situation is only if you mine more than 700 hours with Hulk with Orca support in your time in Eve. But if you are not going to mine 700 hours with Hulk with Orca support during your time in Eve then you may as well sell that plex you would have spent on Exhumer V and buy 400 000 000 isk worth of ore (I assume people buy plex and then use that to run their accounts, instead of paying to get account time, that can not be turned into isk). Because then you have that extra ore you would have gotten from investing in Exhumer V. Only you turned the plex directly into Ore instead of into training time.
I have done this math precisely so people can judge when it is in their best interest to train Exhumer V, and when it is not in their best interest. I am not saying that it is never the right choice. I have time and time again said it is the right choice if you mine more than 700 hours with Hulk with Orca support on that toon.

To feed it with a teaspoon:
This is when the situation is right to train Exhumer V: When you will mine way more than 19 800 000 000 isk worth of ore.
This is when the situation is wrong to train Exhumer V: When you will not mine more than 19 800 000 000 isk worth of ore.
other factors can influence this slightly.

mining semi afk for 6hours a day while you actually play eve on an actual accpunt making 10times as much isk an hour you will have your precious skill payed off using your quacky math in 4months. after that you are making a profit, as small as it may be

now stop making a mountain out of a molehill for an excuse to swing your shlong in peoples face. it was funny at first, like a 3y old but its done now k?

all this effort from you over this, good lord.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
#28 - 2014-01-15 14:32:44 UTC
Do you plan on flying an exhumer in Eve for a large portion of your game time? If so, train to V. You didn't mention the extra effects from any mining implants or mining foreman links from that 3% increase.
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#29 - 2014-01-15 15:16:50 UTC
Kirkwood Ross wrote:
You didn't mention the extra effects from any mining implants or mining foreman links from that 3% increase.


I wait for someone with actual expertise of the mathematical formula that calculates mining yield to give us some insight into how that works. Until then the 700 hour estimate as given by my trip in EVEHQ seems accurate enough. I left the OP open to (hopefully) more accurate rebuttals as indicated by the last sentence, but I think the mathematicians are over in the market discussion forum.

"Do you plan on flying an exhumer(...)"
You are correct. As I have stated, if one plans to mine enough Exhumer V is well worth it, but "enough" is over 700 hours of effective Hulk mining. There's a time and place for exhumer V, but I think it is a very small niche.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2014-01-15 16:30:23 UTC
Ronny Hugo wrote:
derp

Please keep posting. This thread is the best thing I have read all day.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-01-15 17:26:44 UTC
Ronny Hugo wrote:
There's a time and place for exhumer V, but I think it is a very small niche.


Like pretty much every other V skills...

Welcome to EVE skill system.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#32 - 2014-01-15 21:44:05 UTC
All calculations I have ever don in theory or in practice point to "The only thing worth mining in New Eden is Gas in C5 and C6 wormholes." Mining anything else should only be done because you enjoy the act of mining and not the income from it.

**** anybody who tells you how to play a video game, math or not. Do what you want.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Mister Simms
Society for Miner Education
#33 - 2014-01-15 22:35:34 UTC
Garak n00biachi wrote:
Stop turning this game into a god damn spreadsheet...how hard is it to just play\enjoy the game.

If there are skills that benefit you more and take less than that lvl 5 do those first, in any other case just run the damn skill for a month and play the game.


The OP is certainly entitled to enjoy EVE the way he wants. "Spreadsheets is space" is an apt, and common description of EVE. If you don't like spreadsheets, or aren't smart enough to figure them out, then you can enjoy EVE your own way.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#34 - 2014-01-16 00:45:53 UTC
Mister Simms wrote:
Garak n00biachi wrote:
Stop turning this game into a god damn spreadsheet...how hard is it to just play\enjoy the game.

If there are skills that benefit you more and take less than that lvl 5 do those first, in any other case just run the damn skill for a month and play the game.


The OP is certainly entitled to enjoy EVE the way he wants. "Spreadsheets is space" is an apt, and common description of EVE. If you don't like spreadsheets, or aren't smart enough to figure them out, then you can enjoy EVE your own way.


I think he just called you stupid P

In all seriousness I know lots of people that use spreadsheets.
Austin McLaren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2014-01-16 19:11:40 UTC
How about this..
You're mining away minding your own buisness and you notice it's 1 more cycle until you need to dock up and empty so you go pour a coffee. On returning to your keyboard you find your ship has been ganked!!

You're mining away and you notice at the end of the cycle your cargo is full and time to dock, you wait, hit dock and go pour a coffee.


Who had their skill to 5, who didn't lose 200m of assets?
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#36 - 2014-01-16 21:17:04 UTC
Austin, if you could calculate the decrease in risk from being ganked that one would get with a good tank fit, with and without Exhumer V, I would applaud and bow to you.
Kat Bandeis
Trinity Industries Corp.
#37 - 2014-01-16 21:31:09 UTC
Others have already said it, so I'll repeat it because I'm at work and have time to kill.

1) Level 5 skills (for the most part) are completed to open up something else on the skillplan. Cruiser 5 is a perfect example of a skill WELL WORTH taking to L5. Archaeology/Hacking 5, not so much (given the spread of bonuses you get in other ways these two really aren't worth the effort).
2) Unless you're one of those anal-retentive types that sits a stopwatch next to your monitor to guage your isk per second in L4 blitzed missions, it really isn't worth it. The bonus that L5 gives you (OP) is minimal, and if you're planning that tiny percentage difference into your success or failure in EveO, you are just plain doing it wrong.
3) Who gives a flying fig what others here think? You want to do it, do it. Period.

And your comment about hoping CCP will see this thread and reconsider the whole L5 train time versus benefit is just plain stupid. Ponder your belly lint. It's more productive for you and wastes less time for the rest of us here that reply.
Kat Bandeis
Trinity Industries Corp.
#38 - 2014-01-16 21:32:48 UTC
Austin McLaren wrote:
How about this..
You're mining away minding your own buisness and you notice it's 1 more cycle until you need to dock up and empty so you go pour a coffee. On returning to your keyboard you find your ship has been ganked!!

You're mining away and you notice at the end of the cycle your cargo is full and time to dock, you wait, hit dock and go pour a coffee.


Who had their skill to 5, who didn't lose 200m of assets?


Ironically, this. Lol On a whole butt-load of levels.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2014-01-16 22:40:42 UTC
I wouldn't go so far as to say that Exhumer I is worth training.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Mister Simms
Society for Miner Education
#40 - 2014-01-16 22:43:13 UTC
Kat Bandeis wrote:
Austin McLaren wrote:
How about this..
You're mining away minding your own buisness and you notice it's 1 more cycle until you need to dock up and empty so you go pour a coffee. On returning to your keyboard you find your ship has been ganked!!

You're mining away and you notice at the end of the cycle your cargo is full and time to dock, you wait, hit dock and go pour a coffee.


Who had their skill to 5, who didn't lose 200m of assets?


Ironically, this. Lol On a whole butt-load of levels.


I agree. This is great.