Intergalactic Summit

There are far too many stark raving idealists in this discussion.

As one of the aforementioned idealists, one who mostly spends his time in other empires trying to promote our religion by peaceful means, I'm probably the worst capsuleer you could get in terms of bodies-by-the-minute. I still think I've done better by Amarrian relations to the rest of the cluster than any of our gunships have done. The business of killing each other is just a necessary evil at this point that we'll hopefully overcome. Everyone is getting, at the very least, bored of the same old war for reasons we've all largely outgrown.

Don't underestimate the respect gunships may instill in one's allies.

Well, though I may offer a bit less vitriol to those Sansha who aren't preying on our people anymore (the low end of a large number, I suppose), I can't say I have a problem flying through high-security space looking to gun down pirates. I also can't say it matters what empire I am in. I think all civilians have a right to fly freight and passengers uninhibited and without fear of being killed and robbed. So in that, I suppose I've some blood on my hands. Not blood I particularly mind having.

As you suggest, though, my profession is something of a clean one by design. I do not fault men like Pieter for what they have to do; they've little choice in the matter. I am the opposite, even if I'd wanted to march onto the killing fields for some reason, it is incompatible with my job description. You can't preach the Word to the Matari people if you fly straight out into the warzone to kill their more belligerent cousins.

However, my low rate of violence is even then voluntary and based on a principle, that a capsuleer is at his best when he is serving the common man. If we accomplish one thing as a people to be proud of, it may be finally one day making space safe to travel and bringing together everyone into one common understanding. It may be a long way away, but there is no reason not to expect better out of us as a species.

You are correct, sir. The term is meaningless.

While it can be said that our mental models can adhere closer to or further from reality, none of them are indistinguishably close. We are all separated by some significant degree. Further, and more importantly, we simultaneously hold multiple contradictory models at the same time, making discussions of "idealism" and "realism" incoherent, as we must speak of which cognitive system is at the moment engaged. The reality of our minds, and how we come to conclusions, is far more messy than "more idealistic" and "more realistic", unfortunately.

The terms are polite compactions of "You are naieve" and "I am wise" in the original context in this thread, nothing more.

Oh gods, you mentioned her name and now she'll reappear.

I agree that a context must be in place for the terms to have meaning. The discussion prior to this had the context of the proxy war, which did provide the terms with a sufficient level of contextual meaning. Separated from that context, such as in this discussion, I would agree the terms become devoid of meaning in any coherent sense. Thus, it was your derailment of the topic at hand by extracting the term "idealist" from its current context that led to the whole discussion becoming banal.

Not that discussion of abstraction lacks worth in and of itself, but it certainly was unnecessary within the original context.

My point was quite simple and suggested by earlier points in the discussion: namely that the meat of the discussion had already been had, but that certain people continued to repeat themselves without ever responding to the points made by others. I took this as a demonstration of idealism: they were simply wishing that reality was to their liking instead of attempting to grapple with any of the actual discussion at hand. Blind hope and wishful thinking do not achieve anything beyond making one's existence appear trifling.

Your apology was unnecessary. I was simply failing to understand your purpose for abstracting the discussion. You have since made this clear.

I'm pretty sure that it is.

Drivel. If you believe tensions are easing up you should perhaps check one of many devices readily available to even the poorest planetside civilian bastard that readily has access to this wonderful modern convention called "the news." You will learn of a war going on and find access to the daily casualty figures.

Now does your apparent ignorance of common knowledge negate the rest of your drivel? Naturally logic suggests yes, however let's say the current atmosphere of war was at a cessation. Then perhaps we could have a conversation. In fact, just for my own amusement at this point, let us.

I'm interested in the concept of relations between the Federation and the State improving. Not so much as to the question of "is" it improving but, SHOULD it?

Why after everything that has happened with these miserable people should we walk off together into a virgin planet sunset holding hands like some pathetic romance holoreel? As I've said before I don't know why we didn't just let them leave instead of the war. Seems like such a waste for such a bunch that not only have desperately tried to show they don't want to be a part of what makes this Federation great, but that they actively despise it. As far as I'm concerned they want to see it destroyed.

Now maybe you think relations are getting better out in your local channel somewhere or passing somebody at a gate, but if you're not paying attention then let me tell you that in stations things are much different. Want to talk about trade? I can tell you about trade, just look around you and pay attention. Caldari merchants won't give most Gallenteans the time let alone a good price. Some won't wont even sell to you. I saw an Intaki child get his brains smashed in by a Caldari servant type just for trying to use the urine recepticle next to him in a public station room. I'm telling you I really seen that happen. These people have a sickness. They are villians, they animals, they belong on chains like those Brutor beasts.

So the short route to take to ending all this hostility is to either end the war and let everybody go about peacefully (for the whole day, week, or month that would last before you see another filthy disease ridden Caldari convoy running Federation space avoding taxes) OR we fight them until they surrender and then we keep fighing them until we just get bored of it. They won't learn, there's nothing to be done but all out war. Reducing Caldari Prime to a glorified boulder wasn't enough.