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Dust 514 and industry integration
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Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-01-15 01:17:30 UTC
Right now Dust has no meaningful anything industry connection with EVE at all. To be honest, I'm not sure that it ever will. The only thing about Dust that gives some indication that it has something to do with EVE is that there are BPOs, but these are handled completely differently from BPOs in EVE. You all know what a BPO is in EVE. In Dust a BPO is an it

How do you envision an integrated market? What effects would it have on EVE? on Dust? How would it work? Could it work at all? Will it even be attempted?

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Erik Sokarad
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2014-01-15 20:17:45 UTC
well, right now there are systems with large numbers of dust players in local chat. its occasionally like Call of Duty puked in local.

once we get a market, then the real question will be if Dust can sell anything to EVE. also, how do dust players earn their ISK? regardless, the things we make and sell will be based primarily on the cost to produce those goods. i have heard that initially the market will have high taxes, which means CCP will be spiking the cost of introducing new toys into dust. it does not matter which side has to pay this tax, it will effect the real price that dust players must pay, and thus lower demand.

i can see some players investing in EVE, even if only to trade plex, in order to afford the toys they want to use in dust. because having a tank to shoot people with is worth a lot to some people. the tax CCP will be using will likely be to prevent people from turning too much cash into ISK though plex, to maintain some balance in dust.

long run, all that will happen is that dust will likely create a new set of trade hubs for dust-related products, and have a small impact on the overall price of manufacturing parts.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#3 - 2014-01-15 20:55:57 UTC
I think eve prices affecting the dust metagame would be interesting. Dust mercs buy a lot of stuff, and that stuff gets blown up more regularly than your average eve-thing would get blown up. That's a lot of stuff that's generated out of thin air for a fixed price.

I think dust mercs should be able to place buy and sell orders and be fully integrated into the eve market. The biggest conceptual issue to resolve is that currently dust mercs and their stuff just teleport around with them when they go from one battle to another, which conflicts with Eve where the price and inventory vary from station to station.

I feel strongly that eve players should be building and selling the stuff that dust mercs use. I think the militia/basic/standard gear could be t1 manufacturing, directly from RAM items and normal minerals. All of it, or perhaps just advanced/prototype gear and variants, should be roughly the same, except with probably some other material (perhaps sourced from planetary conquest or FW) that allows CCP to adjust the costs without screwing up the mineral market or something. The gathering and resale of said material would provide a monetary eve-side incentive to help in planetary conquest. Just some broad ideas.

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Snagletooth Johnson
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-01-15 21:44:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Snagletooth Johnson
It doesnt seem as of Dust is going to have any industrial side at all. So when/if they are intergrated, it's going be a one sided market place. We sell to them..that is all.

They should give Dust all the PI. This will give them something to sell back to us. Dust should also be kept closey tied to FW, and to Sov. As they fight over planets to PI on, they also effect territorial control, giving us a reason to get into the fight with them, and to make sure we don't price gouge manufactured Dust items, cause their victory is our victory...so to speak.

Of coures this exchange of materials/items should NOT be done through the market (yes, aim advocatiing seperate markets, with a taxed exchange through pococ's) , but through customs offices. You want the Pi mats on said planet, you gotta get dusties to go claim it. In order to do that, they need weapons and gear from you. You need to conquer and build a poco to send them gear and exchange ISk or pay tax to Interbus or the owner (assuming the owner is of the same militia or sov alliance)

Hmm, maybe even give Dusties the moon goo, to0..that'd be a real game changer.

Edi, just an added thought. Would be intersting if their transport between planets was by a ship. They set off to take a planet, they a Interbus or some related NPC ship and get a short timer for when they appaer on the other planet. On our side, we would then need to intercept all those NPC convoys we see...maybe we nothing but junk freight, but maybe we get a convoy full of dusties, and they then regen back at their home base. A matter of luck, but would add an intersting twist.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#5 - 2014-01-15 22:12:33 UTC
Snagletooth Johnson wrote:
They should give Dust all the PI. This will give them something to sell back to us. Dust should also be kept closey tied to FW, and to Sov. As they fight over planets to PI on, they also effect territorial control, giving us a reason to get into the fight with them, and to make sure we don't price gouge manufactured Dust items, cause their victory is our victory...so to speak.

This. They are crawling there anyway. Give the PI stuff to Dust.

Snagletooth Johnson wrote:
Of coures this exchange of materials/items should NOT be done through the market (yes, aim advocatiing seperate markets, with a taxed exchange through pococ's) , but through customs offices. You want the Pi mats on said planet, you gotta get dusties to go claim it. In order to do that, they need weapons and gear from you. You need to conquer and build a poco to send them gear and exchange ISk or pay tax to Interbus or the owner (assuming the owner is of the same militia or sov alliance)

I like this.

Snagletooth Johnson wrote:
Edi, just an added thought. Would be intersting if their transport between planets was by a ship. They set off to take a planet, they a Interbus or some related NPC ship and get a short timer for when they appaer on the other planet. On our side, we would then need to intercept all those NPC convoys we see...maybe we nothing but junk freight, but maybe we get a convoy full of dusties, and they then regen back at their home base. A matter of luck, but would add an intersting twist.

Actually the transport should be done by capsuleers, not by NPC's. POCO's could serve as drop off point. More taxes for the POCO owners Blink.

Add a mobile deployable structure as alternative, if a POCO is not accessible or too expensive to use. Make it a one time use with limited duration of a couple of days, so it's deploy and forget.


Remove standings and insurance.
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-01-15 22:37:53 UTC
there is one issue with the dust market integration though, there will be a short period in which NPC traders disappear and player produced stuff enters the market. Now for EVE it might not be too much of an issue but for the Dust mercenaries it would be game breaking as a lot of weapons and gear in effect disappear from the game.

For low SP players it less of an issue due to the speed of which we'll be able to produce low grade stuff. But if we have a tech 2 invention system for advanced dust items then the elite top tier player base is going to have to wait longer to get the stuff they're used to playing with.
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-01-15 23:52:14 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
there is one issue with the dust market integration though, there will be a short period in which NPC traders disappear and player produced stuff enters the market. Now for EVE it might not be too much of an issue but for the Dust mercenaries it would be game breaking as a lot of weapons and gear in effect disappear from the game.

For low SP players it less of an issue due to the speed of which we'll be able to produce low grade stuff. But if we have a tech 2 invention system for advanced dust items then the elite top tier player base is going to have to wait longer to get the stuff they're used to playing with.

There is a way around that short period. First let players create items. Then start increasing the price of their sell orders. But keep the NPC orders in place until players have stopped buying from them.

The big problem with integration is going to be the massive inflation Dust players experience when Capsuleer ISK starts flowing their way. First from players with an account for both games sending some to their merc, then from nullsec alliances hiring mercs to assist them in sov wars. Especially when I'm expecting that some mercs will be making a lot of ISK from being paid to stay out of battles,
Raylan Scott
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-01-16 02:54:46 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
there is one issue with the dust market integration though, there will be a short period in which NPC traders disappear and player produced stuff enters the market. Now for EVE it might not be too much of an issue but for the Dust mercenaries it would be game breaking as a lot of weapons and gear in effect disappear from the game.

For low SP players it less of an issue due to the speed of which we'll be able to produce low grade stuff. But if we have a tech 2 invention system for advanced dust items then the elite top tier player base is going to have to wait longer to get the stuff they're used to playing with.


I chose an Industrial career for the sole purpose of eventually (hopefully) being able to produce expendables for my corporation of 99% Dust mercs. The updated orbital strike mechanics have strengthened the connection to Dust as it's now critical to have Eve support in Planetary Conquest. Faction Warfare has a lot of potential, but the lack of UI for ongoing/upcoming skirmishes is really holding it back. Creating that and something of enough value to entice capsuleers seems possible in the short term.

Dust is holding steady despite stale content. There's a love/hate relationship for a lot of Dust players, but the Molden Heath space is becoming interesting and it's added a whole new level of meta gaming. Despite the QQ Dust has amazing potential and I think it's headed in the right direction. The Eve connection and the hardware both need to be upgraded (come on PS4) for it to take off.

I don't think you'll see an integrated market for quite a while though.
Snagletooth Johnson
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-01-16 10:23:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Snagletooth Johnson
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Actually the transport should be done by capsuleers, not by NPC's.

i've thought about that one long and hard. I really like that idea, but i don't think in the long run that's do-able. consol gamers are rather ADD (as opposed to pc gamers who are generally OCD), and spending a long time sitting around in a ship doing nothing will not attract more people to Dust. Besides, they can't even get WiS going, moving them in our world would need coding for them to actually exist in our game..in our ships.

Moving them in NPC ships creates a system that's mostly intact in their game. a 5 minute timer (enough time for a quick refill hit the head) representing jump warp. meanwhile, any convoy leaving the origin station or destination station (or Poco as you suggest, i think thats do-able) will be a random kill of dusties. They arent actually in our game, just a represented as a kill.

Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Add a mobile deployable structure as alternative, if a POCO is not accessible or too expensive to use. Make it a one time use with limited duration of a couple of days, so it's deploy and forget.

Oh and this, I didnt think of that..yes yes, get the calculater, YES!
I t would be ideal for attackig. Obviously the tenet corp or dusty group wouldnt let you use their poco to attack them. Setting up a short time deploy-able from which to launch the first waves would be needed.

Would also make for a neat second career as a smuggler. Corp A took down youre poco and have a blockade, but youre dusties need ammo, guns? grab youre viator, go in claoked, make contact, set deployable to make a quick exchange and get out fast before the frigates d-scan you.