Ships & Modules

Stop turning this game into a god damn spreadsheet...how hard is it to just play\enjoy the game.

If there are skills that benefit you more and take less than that lvl 5 do those first, in any other case just run the damn skill for a month and play the game.

If mining is only part of what you do I would say no not worth it. There are other skill to train but, if that is all you do then you may as well max your yield. I would not look at skill training time costing you isk. Personally I think of skills as isk making multipliers.

I don't know, using a PLEX as some sort of gauge to skill bonuses on ships doesn't sit well. . you're pretty much saying It costs me half a billion to get an extra 5% damage on my cruiser. . that's X amount of ships i will have to destroy and get the loot from to make it worth training.

Which sounds pretty stupid. If you do nothing but mine for a living, than yes it is worth training to 5. if not, than no it possibly isn't. regardless, I would be questioning the actually usefulness of a hulk compared to the other mining barges since the changes.

It's a different argument, but i would question whether the hulk itself is worth using anymore. large ore yield, low cargo hold. lots of micro managing to keep dumping the ore before the hold fills up providing you have haulers to collect containers you jettison. . .

But i don't actually mine anymore so my thoughts are purely off thought and not the actual use of the ship.

Gregor, I'm not complaining. I have no opinion on whether it is a good or bad fact, I just think it is a fact. The fact is that it takes a thousand hours of mining to get a profit on exhumer V.

Is it a complaint if I were to point out that gravity on Earth accelerates objects at 9.8 meters per second per second? Would you think it implies that I think it should be more or less?

Bah. If we're going to be throwing math around -- and it may and may not be appropriate to the problem here -- let's at least do it right.

You do not gain 3% yield from Exhumers 5. You gain (1.15-1.12)/1.12 = 2.69% yield. Likewise, you do not gain 2% from turret spec 5, you gain (1.1-1.08)/1.08 = 1.85%.

In either case, whether that extra bit is worthwhile is a very personal choice. If you really want to mine as much as possible or eke out as much damage as possible and there are no other avenues and there's nothing else on the account that would help any of the characters -- for goodness sake, do it. Accounting based on plex alone is silly though; if you don't pay for the account then you won't be mining anything.

I just meant you can't make everyone happy. To make the skill worth training you would end up making people that didn't have it trained upset.

The purpose of this thread was only to point out a piece of mathematics I did today. I should never have put that statement in OP because its another discussion.
(the other discussion is this: I can't mine unless I do something else to entertain myself (I study and exercise while mining). Maybe the miners should have turrets slots for guns and a proper tank and have to mine in security missions or something, then the yield could be a lot higher (and Exhumer V worth it) because the NPC resistance balances it out (you can't fit 8 mining mods in the low slots without getting blown up unless you have logi and other support). Then mining would be mildly entertaining. Maybe the Exhumer skill could have other bonuses per level also that make it worth it, like better tank and drone HP)

But enough off topic. I ask, do anyone have any mathematical or otherwise arguments to show that it is more or less worth it to train Exhumer V than what I put in OP?

PS: "The game is about choice, if you don't think it is worth it, it is pretty simple, don't train it." - Yes, but I would argue that a stupid choice is not a real choice, it is just a pretend choice. Like if I were to offer you this:
1 Abaddon for 250 000 000 isk
or
1 Armageddon AND 1 Abaddon for 250 000 000 isk.
No one in their right mind would choose the first choice, so it is not a real choice you can make, it just has the appearance of being 2 choices.

I will not reply to your last post as the example you countered with was so bad and totally irrelevant it made me puke in my mouth.

Instead I will humor you and let you explain to us what the "math" tells you would be the necessary increase to the level 5 skill to make it "worth training"

Then please explain to us how every miner that already has exhumer V and all the additional miners that will soon have level V would not crash the mineral market with their new and improved yield?

How as an individual do you feel that work out for you compared to the larger groups?

See price drop of aluminium. It was once so valuable that the richest kings ate from aluminium plates instead of gold plates, and today we can get one metric ton of aluminium for less than a months salary. Yet today we earn much more money from extraction and use of aluminium than we did when aluminium was much more valuable. Hence, improving the means of gathering resources is not a bad thing.

If I were to take your bait I would devise a system in which the resource yields and construction efficiency increase slightly every update. So that miners would have to continue buying new mining modules in order to have the maximum yield that is possible. And every launch there would be more stuff, larger ships, larger anchorable objects, bigger things that requires more resources, to help increase demand for ore and manufacturing of items.
If we increase yield by 1% and the demand stays exactly the same then the price would drop by about 1% (Its not exactly 1%, its about 1.001%). But you would still make the same amount of isk per hour you mine, but you would have to mine 1% less to make yourself a battleship, and would think its 1% less of a big deal if you lose your battleship, so you would fly a percentage more hours both PVE and PVP (assuming you're the average EVE player that does everything on average the same amount as the average EVE player). And you would lose more battleships, and you would kill more battleships. Not to mention the modules for them and you would have more salvage to make more rigs for them etc.

I always think "here comes a good one" when the six characters "math" (including quotation marks) is used.

Sid Crash, am not complaining, I find this "feature" of the Exhumer V skill very amusing. It is like finding an easter egg left for us by CCP, "here's this strange economic option, watch people pay to choose it"
I would support making more mathematically profitless skills if CCP wants to make sure people always have something to spend their subscription-time on, but I would still point out how profitless they are. People are free to play the lottery as a bad investment, but then they do it because they want to sit there in anticipation of possibly winning, they can't argue that they do it for the good odds and monetary return on investment. And you can not argue that people train Exhumer V in order to make a profit on training it, they do it because they want to feel like they get the maximum return from every hour they mine. I know I have invested in T2 lasers ONLY because I want to know I kill the NPCs 8% faster than I would with T1 guns (I only have to IV on large lasers). With T1 guns I was haunted by the feeling that "3 battleships left in the last room, if I had T2 guns I would have turned in the mission already", which diminished the entertainment value of the game for me. But I have probably yet to make a profit on that large pulse specialization IV skill.

Stop trying so hard to argue that I am complaining just because you believe (wrongly) that I am complaining. Its turning into a religion. If you can't take my word for it when I say I am not complaining, then I will insist you are doing something you claim you are not to balance things out. But then mods will probably stop our highly advanced and civilized discussion.

the op's view is extremely narrow; isolating variables in a large equation, evaluating them and judging them without taking into account anything that impacts them or what it will impact. making wild conjectures and assumptions based on the flimsiest pseudo logic and quack math.

op, it is extremely simple, why train exumer v on a mining toon?

pay attention now because you seem to miss this every time:

BECAUSE THERES NOTHING ELSE TO TRAIN TO INCREASE YIELD.

we done now?