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Newbian Pilot lands in New Eden
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Arc'Los Xyn
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2014-01-15 03:10:53 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Arc'Los Xyn wrote:
hmmn i'm looking at tech 2 destroyers.. most notably. the ERIS since it has both hybrid turret and launcher slots..

Just so you know... the wiki is a bit out of date. The Eris was changed into a more focused gunship.

Arc'Los Xyn wrote:
is this a good ship to use for PvP/PvE stuff ? like combat sites ?

Errrr... yes and no.

Can it doe PvE and PvP with the respectively correct fits? Yes. But its Tech 1 variant, the Catalyst, can do most of the same things (damage and tank) nearly as well for about 25% of the cost.

What you'll notice as you progress in EVE is that small, almost linear improvements often come at exponentially higher costs.

I'll give a comparison example:

(NOTE: what I'm posting here are what i consider to be "generic" PvP fits... they are not necessarily "optimal" and I'm using them purely for benchmark purposes)

[Eris, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Scrambler II

Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I


[Catalyst, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Scrambler II

Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I


Stats (with all level 5 skills):

Eris:
- moves ~2000 m/sec
- has ~10,000 effective hit points
- deal ~325 damage per second @ ~1km optimal + ~1km falloff
- capacitor power lasts ~1 minute (~33 minutes with armor repair unit off).
- costs ~45-50 million ISK

Catalyst:
- moves ~1500 m/sec
- has ~9,000 effective hit points
- deal ~290 damage per second @ ~1km optimal + ~2.5km falloff
- capacitor power lasts ~50 seconds (~5 minutes with armor repair unit off).
- costs ~10 to 15 million ISK


In terms of pure stats... the Eris wins in all of them except range. However the Catalyst costs only 22-30% of what the Eris does.
If you have limited money, which would you prefer to bring into an engagement where your survival is uncertain?


Arc'Los Xyn wrote:
i don't quite know what an interdiction bubble does.. i know whats its suppose to do.. but i haven't experienced it yet anyhow.

Take a little "suicide" trip out into 0.0 space. That big "bubble" you will inevitably come across... the one you can't warp out from? That's what an interdiction bubble is!

Basically it's an "area-of-effect" warp disruptor that can only be used in 0.0 space (and wormholes). You can still use your MicroWarpdrive in it... but if someone else is there you won't get the chance (see: warp scrambler).


And yes... Tech 2 ships are what many strive for. But again, what they offer you can often get for far cheaper in Tech 1 ships.

I personally suggest dicking around in Tech 1 frigates and get used to the way they handle. Experiment with different fits and tactics... see what you feel most comfortable with.


well that answers it for me then ! hehee.. thanks again as always for the very informative feedback from everyone! ma the wealth of knowledge harnessed from the forums is no joke !!!
I can fly a catalyst already and other destroyers. so i'l just keep using those and my T1 frigates.
I personally like the atron, Kestrel and Rifter, i had tried a magnate once i may try it tonite again to explore wormhole space .. lol

http://ahanddrawnlife.tumblr.com my artwork ! The Journey : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=315016&find=unread
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#42 - 2014-01-15 03:22:18 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
You're welcome.

This will be my final entry because I'm WAY more drunk that I should be for a weekday and I feel I am beginning to sperg.


There are a plethora of third party "tools" that can assist you in the many endeavors you take in EVE. Here are my favorites...

EFT (EVE Fitting Tool): (free program) It allows you to fit any ship in the game to your heart's desire without having to spend ISK in-game and use trial and error to get a result. You can even upload your character's skill using the API system (there is a link buried in the program that will lead you through the process).
Do note that fitting a ship and flying it are two different things. People who make "pretty ship stats" and declare how awesome they are (see: "EFT warriors") are generally frowned upon because there are a plethora of tactics to render various stats moot.

Pyfa (Python Fitting Assistant): (free program) Does the same thing as EFT but offers some other features. It's generally compatible with computers that EFT has trouble with.

EVE-Central: (website) Want to know how much some ships and equipment are but don't want to fly all the way to a market hub to find out? This is your first stop.
NOTE: the market can change very rapidly and this site has a bit of a delay to it. So take the prices listed on it with a grain of salt.

Overview Settings: (picture) If you want to get into PvP... DO THIS FIRST! Your veteran pals will appreciate not having to deal with Friendly Fire incidents.

EVE-Uni Visual Effects Library: (website) Helps in identifying what's going on around you.


EVE-kill: (website) Want to see how many PvP kills/deaths you have tallied up? Want to see what kinds of kills/deaths a friendly or hostile has scored? How about what kinds of ships people fly? This is one place to go to.

Battleclinic: (website) Same as EVE-kill but with a chunkier layout and a few more features.
NOTE: be VERY cautious about ship layouts you try from the site's "Fittings" section. People who frequent this site tend to be "EFT warriors" (see above).

Zkillboard: (website) Same as EVE-kill but a little more reliable (see: doesn't 404 as often).


EVE Who: (website) Want to know who's who? Start your intel gathering here.

How did you Veterans start?
Omega Sunset
Black.Omega
#43 - 2014-01-15 05:23:07 UTC
And I think I've mentioned ISK the Guide, just didn't link it, and some others. Then there are tablet apps if you have one, such as like Aura for android, and some nerdy industrial calculators too.

Arc'Los Xyn wrote:
but i work from 7am to 7pm everyday making / painting assets for a game.. some of you may have played it.. Call of Duty ? ( i have never played it.. i only paint and make pretty pictures for the game )

Only 12hrs? Oh that's not for EA hehe, think they sleep on the floor Shocked. Weird but can't say I've ever played it, though have seen video reviews etc. MOH yes, Battlefield absolutely since BF1942 launched, even quake series starting from Q1 launch day, but never got around to CoD. Texturing and shader programming is fun though, I've done some of that. Modeling and sound engineering too. Mostly I animate. Started with programming industrial machines (CnC - like animating huge mech warriors), about 20yrs ago started, then grabbed some classes and moved into computer animation. I've worked around, but stay away from the big slave driving game companies, focus on independent stuff mostly where I can work from home.

As for alts (think I snipped that part out of your quote), they are easy enough. Now, since recently added, you can just use a PLEX and train a second or third character on your account. It's good if you want to split roles such as an industrial character vs. scout vs. combat pilot vs. marketing alt, vs. FW alt etc. Less about time investment, more about time management so you don't spend all your time building one bloated character. Then again, if developing a second character over a long term goal, a second account is better. Then if you finish training you can always transfer it back to your main account if you don't need two characters in-game at the same time. But you will probably know in a few months if an alt will work for you as you get to know the game better. They are not required unless maybe you are a cap pilot or crazy into mining or such.

—Ω—
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#44 - 2014-01-15 10:24:04 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
You're welcome.

This will be my final entry because I'm WAY more drunk that I should be for a weekday and I feel I am beginning to sperg.


There are a plethora of third party "tools" that can assist you in the many endeavors you take in EVE. Here are my favorites...

EFT (EVE Fitting Tool): (free program) It allows you to fit any ship in the game to your heart's desire without having to spend ISK in-game and use trial and error to get a result. You can even upload your character's skill using the API system (there is a link buried in the program that will lead you through the process).
Do note that fitting a ship and flying it are two different things. People who make "pretty ship stats" and declare how awesome they are (see: "EFT warriors") are generally frowned upon because there are a plethora of tactics to render various stats moot.

Pyfa (Python Fitting Assistant): (free program) Does the same thing as EFT but offers some other features. It's generally compatible with computers that EFT has trouble with.


I would also add in a Step 2 here. After working out your fit using either one of these fine applications, logon to the Singularity Public Test server and buy your ships and fittings (everything costs just 100 ISK) and test it out some. As ShahFluffers mentioned, just because it works on paper does not mean it works.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#45 - 2014-01-15 11:41:02 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Arc'Los Xyn wrote:
hmmn i'm looking at tech 2 destroyers.. most notably. the ERIS since it has both hybrid turret and launcher slots..

Just so you know... the wiki is a bit out of date. The Eris was changed into a more focused gunship.

Arc'Los Xyn wrote:
is this a good ship to use for PvP/PvE stuff ? like combat sites ?

Errrr... yes and no.

Can it doe PvE and PvP with the respectively correct fits? Yes. But its Tech 1 variant, the Catalyst, can do most of the same things (damage and tank) nearly as well for about 25% of the cost.

What you'll notice as you progress in EVE is that small, almost linear improvements often come at exponentially higher costs.

I'll give a comparison example:

(NOTE: what I'm posting here are what i consider to be "generic" PvP fits... they are not necessarily "optimal" and I'm using them purely for benchmark purposes)

[Eris, New Setup 1]

Damage Control II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Scrambler II

Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I


[Catalyst, New Setup 1]

Damage Control II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Scrambler II

Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I


Stats (with all level 5 skills):

Eris:
- moves ~2000 m/sec
- has ~10,000 effective hit points
- deal ~325 damage per second @ ~1km optimal + ~1km falloff
- capacitor power lasts ~1 minute (~33 minutes with armor repair unit off).
- costs ~45-50 million ISK

Catalyst:
- moves ~1500 m/sec
- has ~9,000 effective hit points
- deal ~290 damage per second @ ~1km optimal + ~2.5km falloff
- capacitor power lasts ~50 seconds (~5 minutes with armor repair unit off).
- costs ~10 to 15 million ISK


In terms of pure stats... the Eris wins in all of them except range. However the Catalyst costs only 22-30% of what the Eris does.
If you have limited money, which would you prefer to bring into an engagement where your survival is uncertain?


Arc'Los Xyn wrote:
i don't quite know what an interdiction bubble does.. i know whats its suppose to do.. but i haven't experienced it yet anyhow.

Take a little "suicide" trip out into 0.0 space. That big "bubble" you will inevitably come across... the one you can't warp out from? That's what an interdiction bubble is!

Basically it's an "area-of-effect" warp disruptor that can only be used in 0.0 space (and wormholes). You can still use your MicroWarpdrive in it... but if someone else is there you won't get the chance (see: warp scrambler).


And yes... Tech 2 ships are what many strive for. But again, what they offer you can often get for far cheaper in Tech 1 ships.

I personally suggest dicking around in Tech 1 frigates and get used to the way they handle. Experiment with different fits and tactics... see what you feel most comfortable with.


To add:

T2 ships are specialized hulls of T1 versions.
For instantce:

Interceptor (T2 frigate) = Specialized in fast moving and tackling (aka intercepting enemies)
Their T1 versions still receive some bonus to same stats, but less but also for less skills and less ISK

Interdictor (T2 destroyer) = Specialized in interdiction movement (aka bubbles)
This is an odd one, as the T1 version doesn't receive any specific bonus that the T2 version is useful at (aka bubble)

Logistics (T2 cruiser) = Specialized in logistics support (aka remote repair)
Their T1 versions are useful but just receive less bonus for less skill and ISK needed.

Command ships (T2 BC) = Specialized in boosting a fleet.
Standard BCs can also put in boosting modules, but at less effective rate.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Arc'Los Xyn
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2014-01-15 16:33:37 UTC
- J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds :

thanks ! I always enjoy reading yor responses.. hehe ! its quite helpful so i now understand T2 versions bit better that what I read off the wiki. it seems its just more cost effective atm for me to pilot the T1s and get mastery on them in terms of player skill.. not character skill.

-
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple :

ooo i may try out the singularity sever ! if and when i can snag extra time.. that sounds fun trying out ship and fits for much cheaper.. will actually help if it works as well as it looks on paper !


- Omega Sunset
Black.Omega :

OOoh cool ! yeah i just do pre- and post production Key Art for various games . including modern warfare and a few others.
I paint/sketch them out in photoshop or with the traditional old pencil and illustration board before i do a more detailed color version in photoshop. then i may comps/lay-outs for how the box cover will look for the game ,or do a number of things like the art on the instruction manuals both in-game and printed tutorial stuff... etc , gamestop posters..wallpapers , billboards, etc.etc. I see a lot of games and art.. but i only actually play EvE .. and before that I played Everquest 1.. waaay back in june of 2000.. lol


-
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Late Night Alliance :

Dude thank you zoo much.. all this info and the links are all now bookmarked for me here at my work computer giving me incentive to reduce my productivity.. ROFL. but seriously i gotta set up my overview better .. maybe buy 2 smaller screens and set it up to look like a real cockpit.. with my left and right smaller screens as instrumentation windows for ship functions on left... CENTER screen as combat window .. smaller right screen as chat.. something like that imagines.. ROFL !!!

( altho my GF would probably demand we get a bigger apartment with a separate room if i wanna play armchair pilot like that )

http://ahanddrawnlife.tumblr.com my artwork ! The Journey : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=315016&find=unread
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