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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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NPCs Doing Things

Author
Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#1 - 2014-01-14 20:12:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Crasniya
Can we have NPCs that do things? Shouldn't NPC corporations be shipping large amounts of their commodities from station to station? Shouldn't NPC corporations be mining things?

Space would like a lot more lively if we stopped assuming capsuleers (players) were the only people doing things anywhere. Right now our NPCs mostly fit into two categories: Aggressive NPCs that shoot us, like pirates or drones, and Defensive NPCs that protect us or their faction, like CONCORD. But space should have so many more types of NPCs.

Why not have freighters and industrial ships moving commodities from station to station? They could stay at subluminal speeds within 15km of both stations and gates to allow them to be engaged. Screwing with one would incur the faction/standings loss appropriate, and in highsec, a CONCORD response. While lowsec wouldn't involve CONCORD, these shipments would be escorted by NPC ships of the faction, that you would also have to engage. So it would give pirates some form of "mining" almost, in that they could steal truckloads of commodities from NPCs. I think I've seen *some* NPC freighters before, but nothing that makes giant space stations look like the commercial hubs they should.

And that goes for mining as well. Mining belts shouldn't just have pirates lurking about, there should actually be other ships mining there! NPCs should help deplete mining belts just as well as anyone else. And an enterprising force can skip the drills by attacking and stealing the payload of these NPC vessels.

STRETCH GOAL:

Furthermore, I was even wondering if this could be applied to sovereignty. The idea that only the players live in such giant swaths of space in nullsec is a bit odd, so one might suggest that alongside your ship crews, your sovereign territory is also filled with many citizens of the non-player variety. I haven't worked out the details on this one, bit of a longshot idea here at the end, is that your alliance could have sovereign NPCs working for you, both mining and shipping. Since we don't necessarily need more passive income, their resources could be explained away as upkeep/maintenance costs for structures in your alliance. It can either be explained away, or directly affecting your space, like having lost alliance NPCs could cost you more in upkeep for your sov.

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2014-01-14 20:15:14 UTC
Did they get rid of the old convoys in highsec?
Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#3 - 2014-01-14 20:30:13 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Did they get rid of the old convoys in highsec?


I don't think so. I think I've seen the extremely rare occasional NPC ship. But also, highsec isn't a place where under normal sense, you'd attack an NPC corporation's ship. So I think lowsec would probably be the key here, though I think more highsec ships would help sell the atmosphere better.

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net

JamnOne
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-01-14 20:45:39 UTC
They have NPC ships flying around stations but you don't see them doing much.

I wouldn't mind flying into Minmatar space and hitting one of their convoys while trying to fend of their Navy. Providing the rewards were worth it.

If I may expand upon the OP - I think NPC corps need to get a little bit tougher. If someone is a criminal of the state the NPC Navy should follow them around. Not just sit at the gates and say you have 30 secs to leave. Then don't do anything except one or two warning shots.
Johnson Dragoon
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-01-14 21:05:51 UTC
Honestly, I would like to see Faction warfare grow a little with an idea like this.

For example, you take a look at corp vs corp warfare in eve now vs player's. Concord doesn't get involve correct? So why not have it set up to have "Faction NPCs" be fair game? And allow them to affect the universe more. For example A minmatar player group finds a convoy transporting a bunch of NPC books, the players kill those, so now NPCs that sold those books, their price goes up a tad. This in turn can give people things to do besides sit inside a complex all day long for money, instead they go around and actually protect these NPC convoy's for example to reduce the price on certain items or other things. :)

But hey, that is my two isk.
Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#6 - 2014-01-14 21:11:08 UTC
Johnson Dragoon wrote:
Honestly, I would like to see Faction warfare grow a little with an idea like this.

For example, you take a look at corp vs corp warfare in eve now vs player's. Concord doesn't get involve correct? So why not have it set up to have "Faction NPCs" be fair game? And allow them to affect the universe more. For example A minmatar player group finds a convoy transporting a bunch of NPC books, the players kill those, so now NPCs that sold those books, their price goes up a tad. This in turn can give people things to do besides sit inside a complex all day long for money, instead they go around and actually protect these NPC convoy's for example to reduce the price on certain items or other things. :)

But hey, that is my two isk.


That's another element to this idea I had mused about before and then summarily forgot. :/

These NPCs are part of a supply chain, whether CCP magically spawns the items or not. The rate of mining and industrial vessels lost should affect market prices at that NPC corporation's nearby stations. FacWar is a great place where this mechanic would shine, though I could see it having just as much place elsewhere in the game as well. Highsec, mind you, being CONCORD-protected, would likely not be affected by this much.

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2014-01-14 21:35:19 UTC
Crasniya wrote:
Johnson Dragoon wrote:
Honestly, I would like to see Faction warfare grow a little with an idea like this.

For example, you take a look at corp vs corp warfare in eve now vs player's. Concord doesn't get involve correct? So why not have it set up to have "Faction NPCs" be fair game? And allow them to affect the universe more. For example A minmatar player group finds a convoy transporting a bunch of NPC books, the players kill those, so now NPCs that sold those books, their price goes up a tad. This in turn can give people things to do besides sit inside a complex all day long for money, instead they go around and actually protect these NPC convoy's for example to reduce the price on certain items or other things. :)

But hey, that is my two isk.


That's another element to this idea I had mused about before and then summarily forgot. :/

These NPCs are part of a supply chain, whether CCP magically spawns the items or not. The rate of mining and industrial vessels lost should affect market prices at that NPC corporation's nearby stations. FacWar is a great place where this mechanic would shine, though I could see it having just as much place elsewhere in the game as well. Highsec, mind you, being CONCORD-protected, would likely not be affected by this much.



Slight problem there: All the ships on the market are put there by players. NPC sell orders are BPOs, Skillbooks and a handful of trade goods.
Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#8 - 2014-01-14 22:03:46 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Slight problem there: All the ships on the market are put there by players. NPC sell orders are BPOs, Skillbooks and a handful of trade goods.


I was under the impression some of the really basic crud was seeded too. But I mean, industrial ships would ship those BPOs, skill books, and trade goods around, and the prices would be affected if someone was intercepting the NPC ships, causing supply to fall and prices to rise.

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net

Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#9 - 2014-01-14 22:12:21 UTC
one consideration is that NPCs shouldn't be there doing things just for the sake of us watching them do things in our peripheral vision. While some people have asked for this, it would ultimately be just like a cardboard cutout on the background of a movie set. If NPCs take a higher profile, it should be doing things that are tied to the universe in some deeper way, one that incentivizes disruption or even protection, rather than just another infinite source of stuff to enter or leave the player marketplace.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#10 - 2014-01-14 22:25:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Crasniya
Batelle wrote:
one consideration is that NPCs shouldn't be there doing things just for the sake of us watching them do things in our peripheral vision. While some people have asked for this, it would ultimately be just like a cardboard cutout on the background of a movie set. If NPCs take a higher profile, it should be doing things that are tied to the universe in some deeper way, one that incentivizes disruption or even protection, rather than just another infinite source of stuff to enter or leave the player marketplace.


Well, as stated, I think they should move NPC seeded market goods, for one. And attacking them should affect your faction standings. In terms of those NPC seeded goods, this could been an entirely critical part of seeding those goods in the future. If you steal the shipment, those books don't make it to the market.

As more methods of putting NPCs to work in the field were added, I could actually see this replacing some of mission running as income generation. In the long-term, it would be better to have NPCs actually doing practical things, rather than the current system of "go to random point of space in system where we just spawned some NPCs for you to shoot". Heck, when too many convoys are being disrupted, an NPC corp could request that an industry player run the cargo for them in order to restock their dwindling supply.

But I don't think a cardboard cutout affect, if it existed, would necessarily be a bad thing anyhow. Particularly for new players, EVE needs to feel like more is moving. These stations are massive commerce hubs. Not just Jita. For the galaxy as a whole, every one of these stations should be bustling with activity.

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net

Jake Shifter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-01-16 20:27:30 UTC
Considering there are massive wrecks that we see only in Scan sites and missions, i have come to believe that for the safety and security of the universe, Capsuleers are prevented from seeing, attacking or otherwise interacting with the other denizens of space. So there could be massive amounts of people out in space but we never see them because our camera drones and software are conigured to hide them from us.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2014-01-16 22:36:37 UTC
Crasniya wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Slight problem there: All the ships on the market are put there by players. NPC sell orders are BPOs, Skillbooks and a handful of trade goods.


I was under the impression some of the really basic crud was seeded too. But I mean, industrial ships would ship those BPOs, skill books, and trade goods around, and the prices would be affected if someone was intercepting the NPC ships, causing supply to fall and prices to rise.



Yeah, but how often do you buy a BPO or a skillbook? Any hike in skillbook prices is going to disproportionally affect new players, and the rest of it isn't going to be high volume enough to get noticed really.
Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#13 - 2014-01-19 07:12:29 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Yeah, but how often do you buy a BPO or a skillbook? Any hike in skillbook prices is going to disproportionally affect new players, and the rest of it isn't going to be high volume enough to get noticed really.


A valid point, true. Newbie skillbooks would probably need to be left out of this system or something. Could it affect other costs on the station? Inability to successfully ship in and out could hike materials used for ship repairs, for example, increasing repair costs.

Jake Shifter wrote:
Considering there are massive wrecks that we see only in Scan sites and missions, i have come to believe that for the safety and security of the universe, Capsuleers are prevented from seeing, attacking or otherwise interacting with the other denizens of space. So there could be massive amounts of people out in space but we never see them because our camera drones and software are conigured to hide them from us.


Then why don't I bump off invisible giant ships all the time? ;)

Capsuleers couldn't leave their pods until the game had tech that let us. Every explanation is just a coverup for gameplay that'd eventually be nice to have.

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net

Endovior
PFU Consortium
#14 - 2014-01-19 07:49:55 UTC
I proposed a similar idea some time ago, and support this one as well; EVE would feel more real if there were more NPCs in space actually doing things, instead of just hostile mobs that float around aimlessly with no purpose but to die to players whenever they show up.
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#15 - 2014-01-20 16:38:59 UTC

I'd be okay with adding more NPCs if you could pirate the merchant convoys. I don't think they add a lot of depth though. Agree with Batelle on 'cardboard cut-out' feel with heavy NPC interaction.
Gallali Egidall
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2014-01-20 18:01:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Gallali Egidall
Crasniya wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Yeah, but how often do you buy a BPO or a skillbook? Any hike in skillbook prices is going to disproportionally affect new players, and the rest of it isn't going to be high volume enough to get noticed really.


A valid point, true. Newbie skillbooks would probably need to be left out of this system or something. Could it affect other costs on the station? Inability to successfully ship in and out could hike materials used for ship repairs, for example, increasing repair costs.

Jake Shifter wrote:
Considering there are massive wrecks that we see only in Scan sites and missions, i have come to believe that for the safety and security of the universe, Capsuleers are prevented from seeing, attacking or otherwise interacting with the other denizens of space. So there could be massive amounts of people out in space but we never see them because our camera drones and software are conigured to hide them from us.


Then why don't I bump off invisible giant ships all the time? ;)

Capsuleers couldn't leave their pods until the game had tech that let us. Every explanation is just a coverup for gameplay that'd eventually be nice to have.


I'd rather see something like the second idea (affecting the costs of station services). I might also avoid touching medical clone upgrade costs (but installing medical and jump clone costs could be variable). NPC seeded items have been stripped down to literally the most basic items that characters need. Skill books and BPOs, so they should be left alone.

I'd love to see the environment have an effect on systems. In a "perfect world", the stations would look shabby and seedy if their local resources were reduced and sleek and shiny if their local resources were prosperous, but any change would be nice.

We live in a surreal situation where capsuleers are responsible for the minutest of tasks (garbage disposal), yet have minimal effect on the infrastructure.
Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#17 - 2014-01-27 22:55:22 UTC
Gallali Egidall wrote:
I'd love to see the environment have an effect on systems. In a "perfect world", the stations would look shabby and seedy if their local resources were reduced and sleek and shiny if their local resources were prosperous, but any change would be nice.

We live in a surreal situation where capsuleers are responsible for the minutest of tasks (garbage disposal), yet have minimal effect on the infrastructure.


Honestly, I'd like CCP to acknowledge the place it's taken on the game, and upgrade Jita 4-4 with a unique model. Perhaps a Frankenstein build-on of the station so it's original structure remains intact. Major trade hubs should be updated with unique art to signify their importance in the EVE universe.

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net