Player Features and Ideas Discussion

But the idea was never to affect the niche directly. Was to expand the niche so that it wasn't a niche anymore.

The main thing in choosing between AB x MWD is the scram-range maneuverability as you said. When other things such as null mobility comes into play, MWD is hugely favored. My two cents were about expanding the "scam-range" concept to to the other things you mentioned (bubbles and engagement control).

Yes. But generally I fly in null where dual prop fits work wonders since everyone uses mwd only. A/b is for range control and missile counter. Its not "just" a prop mod. It has many other benefits. Consider it a tanking and defensive module more than a prop mod. Its useful and works fine when used in that manner. if you want max speed, go mwd.

It would be nice if a prop option was just that, an option. Right now its a requirement due to the way combat plays out.

Why not just lose the module all together and have the player choose MWD or AB when in the fitting screen? Could be a simple checkbox.

AB works well on stalker cloaky setups. Very well in fact. But most AB fits are niche to be sure.

In 1v1 frigate brawls (the only place I have ever seen a C-type AB), absolutely. And my proposed change would not really affect those much at all.

Do you fly cruisers with C-type ABs instead of MWDs? How about battleships? Do you fly AB frigate gangs?

100MN AB are used A LOT on typhoons. They are fast enough wit them to ensure they are never hit by dreads or fighters and can reduce a lot of damage by large arties and large railguns depending on distance.

Exploding your sig is only important insofar as sig tanking, which is something that you mostly need an AB to do, but we don't see often because of aforementioned issues with ABs.

Tracking mechanics should be a meaningful part of all or most fights. They should not be something that comes into play exclusively when you fit your ship to make it meaningful at the cost of on-grid mobility.



Your suggestion would make ABs better at catching kiters, but as I illuestrated in the Op, that is not the problem with them (at least, it is not the main problem with them).

They're usable in very specific circumstances which means that the majority of engagements in scram range result in combatants just staring at each other. Given that an AB is required for reasonable movement inside of scram range, I don't just want the AB to be balanced, I want it to be a fairly common module. The hope here is to shift the dynamic of brawling combat, not just make one module better.

perhaps increasing the speed bonus from overheating is a nice way too boost AB effectiveness .. along with a web strength nerf..

I understand that, actually it's part of the design. ABs should be far quicker "off the line" so by clever maneuvering an AB pilot could slingshot a MWD pilot and get a scramble on him.

You talk about "heavy hulls" as if this phenomenon only exists with plated battleships or something. It doesn't. It applies to every size of ship down to destroyers for virtually every engagement, and applies to frigates (the fastest hulls in the game) in almost any situation not involving two brawl-fit frigates going at it.

You're right - tracking probably shouldn't matter too much if two trimarked Abaddons are going at it...And after webs and such are factored in, tracking won't have too much of an effect anyway because the ships in question are so incredibly slow. However, the same problem exists when a Rifter orbits a cruiser and only goes 178 m/s after a single web.

The thing I'm getting at isn't even tracking-specific. If the change resulted in it being vastly easier to sig tank to the point that larger ship classes were less competitive, I'd be fine with a tracking boost. The problem I have is that, in the current metagame, speed ceases to really exist inside of scram range.

In the 1v1 frigate brawls I've been harping on all this time, pilots have the ability to maneuver to manipulate tracking, gain/close distance, and more. These frigate 1v1s involve far more movement and action than sitting on top of each other with guns on. The reason that such movements exist is because afterburners are used and allow people to do that even while webbed. This kind of thing is explicitly absent from the rest of the game.



you're missing my point. I'm well aware that agility helps with slingshotting (although I would argue that, with proper piloting, it's not quite as effective as you're making it out to be). The problems I have with ABs are not so much about their ability to catch kiting ships.