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Dev blog: More Deployables from Super Friends

First post First post First post
Author
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#161 - 2014-01-14 17:20:12 UTC
Everyone is so afraid of interceptors. lol

These new modules are great. Keep them coming.

As far as those whining about them and new POS stuff. Look, CCP gets it. We want a POS revamp. Do you honestly believe that the time it took to make all the deployables that have come out so far, come close to 1% of the time it will take to do a POS revamp? All of these small deployables are most likely a test bed and such for such a POS rewrite. Sure give feedback and opinions on the deployables and what you envision a POS should be, but keep it constructive.

Anyways, I like what you have been doing so far CCP. Just make sure no structure mails are sent out with anything new. Those things just promote lazyness and blobbing.
Georgiy Giggle
Senclave
Apocalypse Now.
#162 - 2014-01-14 17:20:13 UTC
Do not decrease bounty from 100% to 95%, and maybe ESS idea will live.
Other way nobody will use it. And DEVs will lose respect from many carebears.

Or... should we block Jita again, lol? Big smile

Not mastering proprieties, won't become firmly established. - Confucius

Garnoo
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#163 - 2014-01-14 17:20:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Garnoo
just make ESS lowsec only, and with ability to generate 10-20% bounties, mayby this will make lowsec more populated by carebears and thanks to them by...pvpers hunting them

People are going to try to ruin your day. Get together with others, ruin their day back -  EvE

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#164 - 2014-01-14 17:21:20 UTC
seth Hendar wrote:
Sal Landry wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

If by killed you mean "Done by far more people, more often, than before", then sure. Smile

That's exactly what I mean actually, since they're so widely done by week old characters that the loot is now effectively worthless compared to basically any other pve activity.

actually a 4 day toon can now do the same sigs, within the same amount of time, my specialized toons were doing pre-odyssey

still wondering wy i even botered spending weeks (months?) skilling it, since it's now wasted

None of which upholds the assertion that those professions are dead. Wildly popular and widely done, yes... but not dead.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Proletariat Tingtango
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#165 - 2014-01-14 17:23:09 UTC
I really want to be constructive here, CCP, but what in the unholy **** were you smoking when you devised this rube goldberg crap?

There are tons of issues in nullsec right now. Capital issues you're putting off for possibly years, a tedious sovereignty system, a POS system that needs a serious overhaul, utterly broken interceptors (that turn your stupid ESS into a loot pinata for any inty gang that knows where to find it), taking away income from ratters, who from my few years of playing this game are SORT OF KINDA AT THE BOTTOM of the economic food chain in nullsec. Nodbody, no renter, nobody from deklein to delve to Kevla to cobalt edge should want your glorified undefended tip jar.

Don't push this thing into tranquility. Please, don't. I've generally been on board with CCP changes over the last year or two, but this takes the cake as the dumbest damned thing I've ever seen you do, and I've read about tracking titans and remote AOE doomsdays.

What happened to farms and fields and handling top-down income? Why don't you deal with the fact that alliances need to finance themselves with renter empires? I guess you're too busy thinking, damn, the average nullsec line member needs to have his income reduced and/or put at further risk, as if uncatchable interceptor gangs weren't enough.

If I had a plane ticket and passport I think I'd travel to iceland just to take a dump on your front porch if this goes live, CCP.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#166 - 2014-01-14 17:23:39 UTC
GallowsCalibrator wrote:
At first glance, the ESS looks like a bit of a kick in the teeth to the three or four people left ratting in nullsec. The likelihood of anyone hitting 'share' is going to be about 0, so they're probably just going to get shot on principal. So it's pretty much a perpetual nerf to nullsec income, again.

Edit: The ESS should really, really be available in all areas of space (especially hisec) then it'll be interesting. And should have MUCH higher rewards for deployment to make it worthwhile.


I fully agree with this post, the module should be sec status independent and deployable everywhere. It might spawn a new micro profession in which pilots fly around known mission hubs looking for these modules to destroy or even deploying them themselves.

Also I've never supported those who argue that highsec is better than null sec (and as such high sec needs a nerf) but this does seem like a kick in the teeth to null sec to me if thay is the only region that they can be deployed in. Can we have a dev response as to why these units can only be deployed in null sec. Other than that I like the unit and the thinking behind it, I just wish we could deploy them everywhere.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Anariasis
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#167 - 2014-01-14 17:23:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Anariasis
Really looking forward to the ESS. Everytime we get a new WH into a system with ratters there's either the option to go stealing or setup an own one - and maybe get a fight.

I don't get the problems people seem to have with interceptors setting up the ESS or stealing from them. Let me address a few of the possible situations.

  • If CCP wants to avoid interceptors deploying the units, just make them too big for their cargo. They all got <100m³ of space, which of course can be boosted quite a bit (373m³ max I guess) but yeah, then the interceptor has lost quite some fighting capabilities.
  • If an single enemy enters the system and drops an ESS, you can do what you do now anyway: stop ratting until he's gone. Or get intel what he's flying (shouldn't be too hard, you have intel channels, scanners, a POS/station to exchange ships), get in a proper pvp ship and blast his ESS. Minus 30 million for him. Done.
  • If an enemy fleet drops an ESS in your system, do what you do now anyway. Stop ratting. Destroy the thing when they are gone. Or get some friends and defend your space!
  • Single enemy in an interceptor tries to steal the tags. Well, from the moment he enters system you got more than a minute to get to the ESS (his warp time + 20 secs access time + 40s printing of tags). If you didn't place the ESS stupidly close to the gate where he enters but close to your POS (as close as CCP allows), you will most likely make it. And then it's you in a sensor boosted anti-frig ship vs. an interceptor. Both waiting for a can to spawn to which the inty most likely needs to burn first... Did I mention you shouldn't rat alone in system. It might be even you and a few corpmates vs the inty trying to steal
  • Enemy fleet enters your ratting system and empties your ESS. Your intel has messed up, you deserve the loss.
  • WH spawns into your system with active people behind. You really want to have an ESS deployed then already, or one just might pop up at the WH and you won't have fun finding out what else lurks behind it ;)


There's s.th. seriously wrong with risk vs reward in ratting though. The ISK/h should be 0.0 Ratting >>> FW > HS Incursions.

Edit: Forgot something. If you rat all day together with your corp/allymates and then one of them warps to it and presses the button to keep all the money for himself... then maybe you should change corp. Or maybe get him kicked before he can move all his belongings out of your 0.0 staging...
Longdrinks
Zero Fun Allowed
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#168 - 2014-01-14 17:24:54 UTC
Looking forward to these as a way to maybe force a fight from bears who usually dock up untill i leave system.
Esteban Dragonovic
Saidusairos Nebula Concern
#169 - 2014-01-14 17:25:57 UTC
If you're trying to nerf null income then just do it. Don't beat around the bush with this kind of crap.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#170 - 2014-01-14 17:26:02 UTC
greiton starfire wrote:
Nirnaeth Ornoediad wrote:
Just what null-sec needs: another nerf to ratting.

Solo interceptors are just going to flit around null-sec picking up money tags from people foolish enough to deploy these. The bubble won't even slow them down: they'll be able to warp to zero at the ESS.



exactly this, This new deployable looks like somebody came up with a way for alliances/coalitions to better tax their renters, but then someone butted in and said "no we should make even more ways for null sec players lose their isk to people who need to take little to no risk taking it"

seriously, interceptors make these stupid to even try to put out. if one guy patrols the space every 20 mins you have no chance of making 100% isk. and with this kind of incentive i would venture they will be very very common. hell i'll do it for free isk that's easier than ratting.

Since you'll know EXACTLY where that ceptor will be, and will even get a notification when he starts his rounds, you would have to be completely inept to not be able to lay a trap and kill him.

Or flip that coin and plant your own module in someone elses ratting space. You KNOW they'll show up to kill it.

Seriously... think about the possibilities. The value of these module lies beneath the surface.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Innominate
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#171 - 2014-01-14 17:26:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Innominate
Longdrinks wrote:
Looking forward to these as a way to maybe force a fight from bears who usually dock up untill i leave system.


What makes you think that will happen?

They won't anchor them because the ESS helps you more than it helps them. If you anchor one they'll still stay docked up until you leave, then blow up the ESS and go back to ratting.
Antisun
Without the Daystar
#172 - 2014-01-14 17:26:22 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Hmm.

How about:
Cash out/share only by the corp/alliance of the person who dropped it. With the addition of being able to hack it, to get a spew of tags?

That should slow down the interceptors a little.


Came here to say this; remove the notification to give the hacker a fighting chance though.
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#173 - 2014-01-14 17:27:01 UTC
Literally 95% of the naysayers in this thread so far are Goonswarm Federation. So here is a message for you guys, maybe you missed it.

You do not have to use the ESS if you do not want to.

mind = blown
Innominate
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#174 - 2014-01-14 17:28:20 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:

You do not have to use the ESS if you do not want to.


And you're utterly missing the point which is that nobody would want to.
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#175 - 2014-01-14 17:29:33 UTC
Antisun wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Hmm.

How about:
Cash out/share only by the corp/alliance of the person who dropped it. With the addition of being able to hack it, to get a spew of tags?

That should slow down the interceptors a little.


Came here to say this; remove the notification to give the hacker a fighting chance though.

That does sound interesting actually. Didn't they talk/actually remove the 'spew' thing though?

Regardless, having a guy setup to murder interceptors chill at the ESS while his buddies rat seems like a good idea.
greiton starfire
Accidentally Hardcore
#176 - 2014-01-14 17:29:42 UTC
Kadl wrote:
I am still interested in potentially manufacturing the ESS.

The complaints seem to be geared around interceptors scooping the contents too fast. Wouldn't just requiring the thief to be uncloaked and within a reasonable range for 3-5 seconds be enough to make the situation dangerous for interceptors. That might suggest different requirements for deploying the can, or making the can slower to open and loot (different type of can). It seems that those balance options should be available to CCP.



interceptors dont cloak, they just cant be bubbled and have the highest speed of any ship in eve. they can get in system, align, and warp before you start getting your ship aligned. dscan allows them to bounce around and see if anything is on the ess that could hurt them fast enough. if they fit a cyno they can bring in people to drop whoever was dumb enough to sit in the bubble trying to defend the ess. if no one is in the bubble all they have to do is get in right click take all warp out. being a frigate they might not even be locked in time. so pretty much in order for a nullsec group to use it they have to have guys sit in antifrigate ships and have backup on hand incase of a drop. the benefit of using one will never be enough for a group to go through all that effort, so let's call it what it is a nerf to null sec income and a shiny new deployable warp bubble.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#177 - 2014-01-14 17:30:05 UTC
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:
I really want to be constructive here, CCP, but what in the unholy **** were you smoking when you devised this rube goldberg crap?

There are tons of issues in nullsec right now. Capital issues you're putting off for possibly years, a tedious sovereignty system, a POS system that needs a serious overhaul, utterly broken interceptors (that turn your stupid ESS into a loot pinata for any inty gang that knows where to find it), taking away income from ratters, who from my few years of playing this game are SORT OF KINDA AT THE BOTTOM of the economic food chain in nullsec. Nodbody, no renter, nobody from deklein to delve to Kevla to cobalt edge should want your glorified undefended tip jar.

Don't push this thing into tranquility. Please, don't. I've generally been on board with CCP changes over the last year or two, but this takes the cake as the dumbest damned thing I've ever seen you do, and I've read about tracking titans and remote AOE doomsdays.

What happened to farms and fields and handling top-down income? Why don't you deal with the fact that alliances need to finance themselves with renter empires? I guess you're too busy thinking, damn, the average nullsec line member needs to have his income reduced and/or put at further risk, as if uncatchable interceptor gangs weren't enough.

If I had a plane ticket and passport I think I'd travel to iceland just to take a dump on your front porch if this goes live, CCP.

This, absolutely this.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#178 - 2014-01-14 17:30:21 UTC
Innominate wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:

You do not have to use the ESS if you do not want to.


And you're utterly missing the point which is that nobody would want to.

Simple minds.....

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#179 - 2014-01-14 17:31:00 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Literally 95% of the naysayers in this thread so far are Goonswarm Federation.

I guess that means we're smarter than you.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#180 - 2014-01-14 17:31:10 UTC

Others have brought up several valid concerns:

1.) Response Times: I love giving roaming gangs the opportunity to mess with ratters that don't defend their space. On one level, that is exactly what this does. Unfortunately, it doesn't give the locals enough time to actually form up a response to the incoming fleet. 20 seconds access time is frankly, way, way, way to short. Hell, 75% of ships in the game couldn't warp on grid before the ESS is accessed. Furthermore, once it is accessed and the take all feature is implemented, the ESS is reset to no longer give its full reward. Next, the locals get an extra 40s to respond before the ESS dumps the isk-tags. To be quite frank, that's 60-90s to respond to a hostile interceptor entering the system, warping straight to the ESS beacon, and snagging the bounty payouts. If you have someone in combat fit dessie/frig ready to go, you can respond timely, but in most circumstances a pilot has to warp to a POS/station, swap ships, and then get to the ESS to defend it, and 90 seconds is no where near enough time to respond. To be quite frank, the "access time" needs to be increased to the point that the locals can form up and defend it. If they don't have time to defend it, the risks for using it will completely negate the rewards for using it. This MUST be addressed. I would recommend 3-5 minutes to access the item, and another 3-5 minutes before the isk-tag drops. This way the locals have time to form up and defend it, and perhaps battle for the loot.

2.) Risk vs Reward: The new baseline is 95% of the bounties on the rats. Your risk (immediate loss) if you deploy one of these: 15.7% of your new income level. Your reward if you keep it online: 10.5%. To put this in terms, you give me $15 dollars now, and I will attempt to give you back $25 dollars later if everything works out. The primary issue is, these are very risky in their current form, meaning the reward may not be high enough to bother with the hassle. Fruthermore, when scamming other players, isn't the norm to double the money. Meaning it should pay out 110% at the minimum.