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Remove Wardecs
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Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2011-11-16 23:16:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Terminal Insanity
I think wardecs should be completely removed. It only serves as a disadvantage to corps who are unaware of Dec Shield and such mechanics.

CCP has stated that being immune to wardecs is allowed, so why not just remove wardecs completely? Leaving them in is pointless, and only harms new players.

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#2 - 2011-11-16 23:21:20 UTC
If you can't handle a wardec you don't deserve to run a corp.

Cry the **** more.
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2011-11-16 23:24:09 UTC
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
If you can't handle a wardec you don't deserve to run a corp.

Cry the **** more.

I'm sorry but CCP disagrees with you. They've stated that it is legal to abuse game mechanics in order to be immune to wardecs. Im simply asking that they remove the wardec mechanic all together, since it serves no purpose anymore.

We are already able to avoid wardec, there is no reason to keep it in the game.

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#4 - 2011-11-16 23:27:08 UTC
So no intervention needed. Corps can go to war with each other, and the ones who can't handle it can jump ship into NPC corps. No changes required.
Goose99
#5 - 2011-11-16 23:29:27 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
I think wardecs should be completely removed. It only serves as a disadvantage to corps who are unaware of Dec Shield and such mechanics.

CCP has stated that being immune to wardecs is allowed, so why not just remove wardecs completely? Leaving them in is pointless, and only harms new players.


Should rival large sov null entities have free access to empire logistics? Wars serve a purpose, it's just that 99% of decs don't. If you want to remove them, do it for highsec corps/alliances only, sov holders shouldn't get the protection. Killing off pointless griever spam wars and leaving only real wars also serve to reduce total number of decs enough that it can be moderated by gms against dec shield & exploits.
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2011-11-16 23:35:59 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Wars serve a purpose


What exactly does a wardec do now?

If you wardec CorpA, they simply shed your wardec and continue playing without a wardec.

What does a wardec do other then make them spend 5 minutes clicking a couple buttons in the Corporate window? Nothing. Your wardec literally does nothing anymore. Wardecs are effectively removed already.

Im just asking that CCP take the final step and simply remove the mechanic, since it does nothing anymore.

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Goose99
#7 - 2011-11-16 23:40:04 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
Wars serve a purpose


What exactly does a wardec do now?

If you wardec CorpA, they simply shed your wardec and continue playing without a wardec.

What does a wardec do other then make them spend 5 minutes clicking a couple buttons in the Corporate window? Nothing. Your wardec literally does nothing anymore. Wardecs are effectively removed already.

Im just asking that CCP take the final step and simply remove the mechanic, since it does nothing anymore.

Goose99 wrote:
Terminal Insanity wrote:
I think wardecs should be completely removed. It only serves as a disadvantage to corps who are unaware of Dec Shield and such mechanics.

CCP has stated that being immune to wardecs is allowed, so why not just remove wardecs completely? Leaving them in is pointless, and only harms new players.


Should rival large sov null entities have free access to empire logistics? Wars serve a purpose, it's just that 99% of decs don't. If you want to remove them, do it for highsec corps/alliances only, sov holders shouldn't get the protection. Killing off pointless griever spam wars and leaving only real wars also serve to reduce total number of decs enough that it can be moderated by gms against dec shield & exploits.


Read whole postRoll
Pelador Rova
No Luck Corp
#8 - 2011-11-17 00:25:17 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
I think wardecs should be completely removed. It only serves as a disadvantage to corps who are unaware of Dec Shield and such mechanics.

CCP has stated that being immune to wardecs is allowed, so why not just remove wardecs completely? Leaving them in is pointless, and only harms new players.


Dec shielding is a problem, so burn the system?

Also look at war avoidance by simply leaving corps.

Whilst at it, look at corp hopping to improve war positions. That's the other side of the coin.

Consider the relative cheapness of declaring wars.

Also look at the consistant operating costs of long term wars favouring larger organisations and alliances. (On a singular basis).

Short term cool downs for repeating wars.

I agree the current war deccing mechanics are far from ideal, so yes I agree they need a rethink, but no need to take a defeatest stance. Perhaps use some of your efforts more constructively to "improve" the system, seems to me a better use of time? Apathey at the end of the day kind of makes it deserved what you are given.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2011-11-17 01:19:35 UTC
Goose99 wrote:

Should rival large sov null entities have free access to empire logistics? Wars serve a purpose, it's just that 99% of decs don't. If you want to remove them, do it for highsec corps/alliances only, sov holders shouldn't get the protection. Killing off pointless griever spam wars and leaving only real wars also serve to reduce total number of decs enough that it can be moderated by gms against dec shield & exploits.



This...

Wardecs do serve a purpose somewhat in Eve.

They allow alliances to disrupt the high sec supply and training corps so that they can win in null sec.

So it needs to remain in the game.

However, to expand on this, ANY corp/alliance with a POS anywhere in Eve is decable.

Because when you build a POS, even in high sec, you're essentially claiming that system.

Now, there are several things that would have to be illegalized in Eve for this to work properly.

1) No more dec shielding of any kind.

2) Any corp that supplies, trains, or whatever for a null sec corp/POS owning corp MUST be part of that alliance/corp.
In other words.
No npcs corp alts you use for transpo.
No supply corps that aren't in the alliance.
Whatever else would tie into this.

These would all be methods of dec shielding and would thus be illegal.


Further more, there needs to be something to allow players to seek revenge on those who attack them in high sec.

Perhaps allow them to have aggression with the individuals involved in their destruction for...we'll say 3-5 days...Maybe a week.

This means, that even though there is no longer a wardec system, there is still a method for players to seek revenge from baits, ganks, thefts, and whatever else.

If you corp avoids committing any hostile actions towards another person, doesn't own a POS, and isn't directly tied to an alliance that has POSes, then your corp should be pretty safe from anything but suicide ganks(as long as you don't fall for baits or whatever)

This is a way of removing war decs in high sec as they are, but still giving war decs to those who still need them, while also giving a much longer aggression timer allow a player/s to respond to hostile actions from others.

Oh, and any illegal acts committed in low/null no longer give any negative security standings to ANYONE.
Maybe this will bring in more low sec pvp, and make FW life a little easier.

(P.S. With this wardecs can be free)

So this solves issues for everyone.

No more war decs for PVE oriented, non-POS owning alliances/corps.

No penalties for pvp in low/null/wh space

Free war decs.

NO MORE DEC SHIELDING, INCLUDING NPC CORP AND CORPS SUPPLING BUT NOT IN THE ALLIANCE.
Zirse
Risktech Analytics
#10 - 2011-11-17 03:55:20 UTC
I think CCP know (or hopefully know) that the wardec system needs an overhaul.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#11 - 2011-11-17 13:11:53 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
I think wardecs should be completely removed. It only serves as a disadvantage to corps who are unaware of Dec Shield and such mechanics.

CCP has stated that being immune to wardecs is allowed, so why not just remove wardecs completely? Leaving them in is pointless, and only harms new players.


Maybe if you get your mum to write a note to CCP, they may excuse you from war decs.

Seriously... Man UP!

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-11-17 15:03:21 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
I think wardecs should be completely removed. It only serves as a disadvantage to corps who are unaware of Dec Shield and such mechanics.

CCP has stated that being immune to wardecs is allowed, so why not just remove wardecs completely? Leaving them in is pointless, and only harms new players.


No.

Move along now folks, nothing to see here.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#13 - 2011-11-17 15:37:15 UTC
wardecs are one of the few things allowing people shooty shooty others in high sec.
Without that, empire would get too safe, that would be a wrong step.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#14 - 2011-11-17 18:22:45 UTC
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Terminal Insanity wrote:
I think wardecs should be completely removed. It only serves as a disadvantage to corps who are unaware of Dec Shield and such mechanics.

CCP has stated that being immune to wardecs is allowed, so why not just remove wardecs completely? Leaving them in is pointless, and only harms new players.


Maybe if you get your mum to write a note to CCP, they may excuse you from war decs.

Seriously... Man UP!



What this guy just said.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2011-11-17 20:10:59 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Terminal Insanity wrote:
I think wardecs should be completely removed. It only serves as a disadvantage to corps who are unaware of Dec Shield and such mechanics.

CCP has stated that being immune to wardecs is allowed, so why not just remove wardecs completely? Leaving them in is pointless, and only harms new players.


Maybe if you get your mum to write a note to CCP, they may excuse you from war decs.

Seriously... Man UP!



What this guy just said.


It's funny when people say "Man UP" or whatever in relation to this topic because they assume that those existing in high sec should man up and deal with pvp combat.

Yet, they never suggest to those thriving off taking advantage of easy kills in high sec to "Man UP".

You guys should take a note from your own pages.

Man UP and quit suggesting that everyone in high sec should be force to be a play toy.

You have low, null, and wh space.

You're always gonna have a place to pvp. So "Man UP", take a risk, and go shoot someone who shoots back.
Mara Villoso
Long Jump.
#16 - 2011-11-18 16:56:45 UTC
I totally agree OP. Here's the reasoning I've used elsewhere.
Mara Villoso wrote:
Have you ever heard the expression, “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink”? The fundamental issue here is that some people just don’t want to fight. The devs and GMs and mercenaries may wish otherwise and may seek to find ways to force the issue, but those efforts are doomed to failure.

If a dec mechanic locked a corporation into an alliance (or out of one) and locked every single member into that corporation for the duration of the war, it would only lead to people leaving the game. The only result of a push to force people to PvP is that there will be no PvP from those people. It’s just not going to happen. Just like its not happening now, just like it hasn’t been happening for years. The change to wardec policing changes nothing in practice. Those people were always avoiding the decs. The only people affected by hisec wardecs are those with an attachment to their corp name, those with a POS that can’t be taken down quickly, and those who don’t know better. That’s it.

CCP should spend a little time gathering information from those players about why they don’t want to fight. Or under what conditions they would.

At the end of the day, this is what we’re really talking about when we’re talking about wardec shields and evasion. Like it or not, you can lead a carebear to war, but you can’t make him fight.


Mara Villoso wrote:
Wardecs have always been and will always be pointless. As long as they follow the corp and not the player, they can and will be evaded. In effect, this means wardecs affect only people who care about their corp name, have a POS they can't take down quickly, and the clueless. Any change to wardecs that makes them against individuals will lead to those people leaving the game. They don't want to fight. They aren't going to fight. There is nothing you or CCP can do to make them. Period. The End. There is no fix for wardecs. Just get rid of them.
Ganking is, was, and will always be the only way to get individuals.

The only failing of the change to wardec policing by the GMs is POS destruction. The only solutions that are needed are ones that make POS bashing in hisec possible.

Whenever I hear about extending decs to individual pilots, I just shake my head in amazement. What is it that you think will happen? People avoid decs for a reason. They're not interested in fighting. So what happens when the war gets tagged on to the character? Do these people magically decide to change several year's worth of behavior and playstyle and come out with guns blazing? The potential for never ending griefing that goes with putting decs (or kill rights) on individuals is simply too great and its effect is all too predictable.

If you want to kill something, get your ass to losec/nosec. PvP'ers in hisec are making a paradoxical argument: they want to kill whomever they please, but they don't want non-consensual PvP from anyone else. Choose one or the other; you're either for non-consensual PvP for all or for none.
Dutarro
Ghezer Aramih
#17 - 2011-11-18 17:03:10 UTC
Quote:
The only people affected by hisec wardecs are those with an attachment to their corp name, those with a POS that can’t be taken down quickly, and those who don’t know better. That’s it.


There are hisec corps and alliances willing to fight when someone declares war on them, though they may be a minority.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#18 - 2011-11-24 11:43:29 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Tanya Powers wrote:
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Terminal Insanity wrote:
I think wardecs should be completely removed. It only serves as a disadvantage to corps who are unaware of Dec Shield and such mechanics.

CCP has stated that being immune to wardecs is allowed, so why not just remove wardecs completely? Leaving them in is pointless, and only harms new players.


Maybe if you get your mum to write a note to CCP, they may excuse you from war decs.

Seriously... Man UP!



What this guy just said.


It's funny when people say "Man UP" or whatever in relation to this topic because they assume that those existing in high sec should man up and deal with pvp combat.

Yet, they never suggest to those thriving off taking advantage of easy kills in high sec to "Man UP".

You guys should take a note from your own pages.

Man UP and quit suggesting that everyone in high sec should be force to be a play toy.

You have low, null, and wh space.

You're always gonna have a place to pvp. So "Man UP", take a risk, and go shoot someone who shoots back.


Sorry if I am necroing this thread, I had to reply.

Joe Risalo seems to have mistaken me for some sort of hisec ganker.
I assure you I am pretty much a hisec carebear. I do sometimes do hit and run ABC mining in WHs and once every three months I like to run the pirate Arcs in 0.0..... but the rest of the time i bum around hisec.

That being said, I do believe that what makes Eve a great and exciting game, is the risk you take every time you leave a station (no matter what sec space you are in). There is a mechanic to avoid wardecs, its called NPC Corps (as Joe Risalo is well aware, as he is in one. Unless he is coward-posting with an alt).

Even in hisec, the benefits of creating a corp and fighting with or against other corps in Eve (yes, even industry corps are fighting to make more money than the corps around them, to gain more market share, and compete for the same resources), should be balanced with the ability to make or receive wardecs.

There are so many ways in eve to deal with a wardec, asking for the game to be changed is the laziest and most selfish of them.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer
#19 - 2011-11-24 11:53:26 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Because when you build a POS, even in high sec, you're essentially claiming that system.


No, you take a spot at a moon... and can't do anything to it, but this is another story.

Even more, two enemy corps can have a POS in the same system.

You can't claim anything in highsec, not even a stupid roid.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#20 - 2011-11-24 12:07:01 UTC
Mara Villoso wrote:
The change to wardec policing changes nothing in practice. Those people were always avoiding the decs. The only people affected by hisec wardecs are those with an attachment to their corp name, those with a POS that can’t be taken down quickly, and those who don’t know better.
it most certainly changes something. Now, you can keep your corp name and your POS and still be completely unaffected by wardecs.
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