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Synthetic Drawing Rights, ISK, Bitcoin and You!
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Justin Cody
War Firm
#1 - 2014-01-10 19:04:58 UTC
Dear CCP,

Being such fans of sci-fi and of course..both Icelandic Kroner and InterStellar Kredits...I think to keep consistent with your sci-fi mentality...you should allow people to pay in bitcoin for both subscription and plex!

There are many reasons to do this.

* avoid bank fees
* allow seamless conversions from any number of currencies world wide
* because freedom™
* jives with EVE's ISK currency!

/Soon™ please
Iain Zigmura
Rifterlings
#2 - 2014-01-10 20:10:37 UTC
Stop pretending bitcoin is an actual currency.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#3 - 2014-01-10 20:11:41 UTC
Use the search function. The topic has been brought up in the past.

Also... it's only a matter of time before too many underworld organizations take advantage of Bitcoin and national governments have to crack down (or possibly crush) on it.

How did you Veterans start?
Llyona
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#4 - 2014-01-11 00:14:04 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Use the search function. The topic has been brought up in the past.

Also... it's only a matter of time before too many underworld organizations take advantage of Bitcoin and national governments have to crack down (or possibly crush) on it.


Just how are they going to do that?

Sure, they've managed to grab bitcoins from people they've raided. This only occurs when the person's wallet isn't encrypted on a USB stick. Other than that, there's really no way for them to know who is sending what where.

EVE is an illness, for which there is no cure.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2014-01-11 00:40:10 UTC
Llyona wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Use the search function. The topic has been brought up in the past.

Also... it's only a matter of time before too many underworld organizations take advantage of Bitcoin and national governments have to crack down (or possibly crush) on it.


Just how are they going to do that?

Sure, they've managed to grab bitcoins from people they've raided. This only occurs when the person's wallet isn't encrypted on a USB stick. Other than that, there's really no way for them to know who is sending what where.


And that is why it is used for so many illegal transactions, and also why it's going to get smashed up one day.

And also why CCP would be mad to start accepting it.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2014-01-11 02:29:02 UTC
Llyona wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Use the search function. The topic has been brought up in the past.

Also... it's only a matter of time before too many underworld organizations take advantage of Bitcoin and national governments have to crack down (or possibly crush) on it.


Just how are they going to do that?

Sure, they've managed to grab bitcoins from people they've raided. This only occurs when the person's wallet isn't encrypted on a USB stick. Other than that, there's really no way for them to know who is sending what where.

It's called banning it's use and refusing to acknowledge any monetary transaction made with it as "legitimate." And such transactions will be found not by having a paper trail... but through an absence of it (because we live in a world that is pretty much ruled by "paper trails").

How did you Veterans start?
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-01-11 02:36:35 UTC
Even bit coin has a paper trail of sorts. It is far from anonymous.
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-01-11 03:06:58 UTC
Quote:
* avoid bank fees
* allow seamless conversions from any number of currencies world wide

How do fees like at the bitcoin<>government currency exchanges compare with bank fees ?

As for seamless conversion, credit card companies handle that rather well.

Llyona wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Use the search function. The topic has been brought up in the past.

Also... it's only a matter of time before too many underworld organizations take advantage of Bitcoin and national governments have to crack down (or possibly crush) on it.


Just how are they going to do that?

Sure, they've managed to grab bitcoins from people they've raided. This only occurs when the person's wallet isn't encrypted on a USB stick. Other than that, there's really no way for them to know who is sending what where.

They take out the exchanges that convert between bitcoin and government currency, which can be traced through their flow of government currency. Now lots of places will stop accepting bitcoin as payment, as they can't buy anything they want with the bitcoins they receive. Leading to less things to buy with bitcoin, and more places dropping them for the same reason. That cycle will end bitcoin.

Sure, the government won't know how many bitcoins anyone has. But they won't care either.

As for the anonymity of bitcoin users
Quote:
Lack of anonymity

The block chain is a public ledger of every bitcoin transaction and does provide pseudo-anonymity in that a bitcoin address do not directly identify their owner. However, tracking the flow of bitcoins through transactions can give clues as to who the owner is.[95] Bitcoin uses cryptography but does not do so to protect the identities of its users. Bitcoin is anonymous in that it is difficult to associate Bitcoin transactions with real-life identities.[96] In addition Bitcoin intermediaries such as exchanges are required by law in many jurisdictions to collect personal customer data.[68]

Bitcoin has been criticized for its proof of knowledge by the free software movement activists including Richard Stallman, who called for reformed development.[97] Zerocoin was a proposed add-on to Bitcoin, which employs cryptographic accumulators and digital commitments with zero-knowledge proofs to eliminate trackable linkage in the Bitcoin block chain, which would make Bitcoin anonymous and untraceable, however it has been suggested by Zerocoin developers that instead of building on top of the Bitcoin protocol, Zerocoin may decide to launch as an alternative cryptocurrency instead.[98][99][100][101][102]
Pipa Porto
#9 - 2014-01-11 06:01:04 UTC
Hesod Adee wrote:
As for the anonymity of bitcoin users
Quote:
Zerocoin I'm-buying-drugs-coin may decide to launch as an alternative cryptocurrency instead.[98][99][100][101][102]


Fixed.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2014-01-11 06:35:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Nariya Kentaya
currency is government-printed ebcause its a measure of a country's wealth/prosperity (the equivalent value associated with each unit of currency that is).

currency by its very nature is a faith-based system, especially in the modern day, because there is NO hard value, unlike a barter/trade system.

so using a currency that is not only completely virtual, but not tied to ANY concrete/tangible entity by which to measure consistent value, is ridiculous. sure a value can be ascertained, however unstable it may be, but at the end of the day its even more faith-based than a government backed one, because there is no one responsible for its value.

in short, bitcoin and all like it are stupid. i'd rather invest in the peso, or the won.
Beta Maoye
#11 - 2014-01-11 06:58:22 UTC
Change the subject to Please support Bitcoin speculation.
Dieterlin
Reckless-Endangerment
Manifesto.
#12 - 2014-01-11 09:06:41 UTC
On top of the other problems people have mentioned so far, there's the problem of Bitcoin's ridiculous volatility and relative illiquidity. CCP doesn't want Bitcoin, CCP wants to keep its servers running (the electricity company doesn't want bitcoin) and its staff paid (in Krona, because they want to eat, not buy "Reddit Gold").

Exchanging large quantities of bitcoin for a government-backed currency is slow enough when the exchange is to USD, I don't imagine that it's any faster when exchanging for Krona. If they just exchange bitcoin for USD and then exchange USD for Krona, there's no advantage from CCP's point of view over just demanding to be paid in USD/EUR/GBP/Whatever in the first place, because they still have to pay currency exchange fees.

Because exchanging bitcoin for regular money is relatively slow compared to exchanging one national currency to another, CCP would be forced to hold on to a relatively large stockpile of bitcoins while they exchange them for money they can use to pay their staff with. This exposes them to the volatility of Bitcoin, and while that might be great for people who want to gamble and call it investing, it's not so great when it devalues by 50% in a day and all of a sudden CCP can't afford to keep their servers up.

TL;DR:
Bitcoin's supposed advantages are irrelevant to CCP, and the process of exchanging Bitcoin to Krona adds a bunch of issues that CCP probably doesn't want to deal with.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#13 - 2014-01-11 09:30:01 UTC
bit coin would be useful if ccp took up human trafficking of drug distribution, not much more.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Pipa Porto
#14 - 2014-01-11 11:08:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Incidentally, why does the title of the thread imply that it contains discussion of the Illuminati's IMF's world currency?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Justin Cody
War Firm
#15 - 2014-01-13 03:35:54 UTC
Well it seems there's massive ignorance in this thread. I will start debunking the major points below.


  • Bitcoin only useful for drug/human trafficking: False, people already use fiat currencies and other non-monetary resources for illegal bribery schemes. Bitcoin can be easily used for purchasing gasoline at your local gas station, food at your local market or anything where a wifi-signal/cell signal is available. To see examples of large uses of "fake" currency for illegal means read up on the BAE bribery scandals using oil as the untraceable currency. Nevermind that 99% of all illegal activities are conducted with "real" currency

  • Bitcoin's volatility: This is rather a neutral thing, but it is fluctuating highly due to its novice and the extra-market (re: government) forces adapting to it. This really only matters if you are buying or selling bitcoins and will not matter in the least for those just avoiding bank fees for international money sending.

  • Bitcoin isn't real/has no physical value: Only partly true. Like physical items that used to back most currencies (gold/silver primarily) there are a limited amount of bitcoins that cannot be 'printed' just because a central banker desires. A bitcoin is essentially a rare number acquired by solving an equation that gets ever harder to solve and so only a finite amount will ever exist. It cannot be debased by simple 'printing' and the code that runs is open source so any changes would be seen by everyone.

  • Banks and organizations like Western Union routinely charge up to 15% fees for international transactions, especially those on the large side so to send 100K costs you 115K as an example. This isn't always the case and rates vary. Bitcoin transactions are far lower in amount.

  • Crypto-currencies like bitcoin/litecoin/zerocoin and whatever else comes after provide many of the services that the IMF and other international trading blocks want out of an SDR with the advantage of it being open to individuals to use creatively. The idea that governments will smash it is ignorant. Hell JP Morgan just revived a patent for their own crypto-currency. This may be new but it will grow. Bitcoin itself now has the same or larger market cap as pay-pal does.

  • Added advantages: allows people around the world to de-bank, or to conduct business in parts of the world where banks are not stable or are quite scarce.
Justin Cody
War Firm
#16 - 2014-01-13 03:36:48 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Incidentally, why does the title of the thread imply that it contains discussion of the Illuminati's IMF's world currency?


Just due to its resemblance to in-game ISK as a trade currency
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#17 - 2014-01-13 04:13:04 UTC
quote=Justin Cody]
Pipa Porto wrote:
Incidentally, why does the title of the thread imply that it contains discussion of the Illuminati's IMF's world currency?


Just due to its resemblance to in-game ISK as a trade currency[/quote]
Same model, ccp know a fair bit about it ,isk is a closed system, however bitcoin is not.

No, clearly it's not simply a nefarious currency but it's use and worth took something like a 30% ( correct me by all means ) hit when the silk road was busted so you may draw your own conclusion from that.

The anonymity could be abused to all.
Rmt would be a LOT harder to deal with in just about every instance the currency was involved, tracing accounts and identifying who runs bots would be dame near impossible.

To be fair, this is in a sense one of the more interesting ideas iv seem here but I can't see it as a potential runner.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2014-01-14 01:32:00 UTC
Justin Cody wrote:


  • Added advantages: allows people around the world to de-bank, or to conduct business in parts of the world where banks are not stable or are quite scarce.
    • [/list]

    please elaborate, what countries would bitcoins hold any viability to obtain/use in, if said country doesnt even have the infrastructure necessary for a practical national banking system?

    a country as you describe would rather barter/trade physical goods/services rather than having a currency they not oly cant physically carry with them, but would likely have to travel hours to find anyone willing to accept/convert it into a practically usable currency.
    Jasmine Assasin
    The Holy Rollers
    #19 - 2014-01-14 02:50:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jasmine Assasin
    Quote:
    Overstock.com makes more than $1.3 billion per year from sales, making it easily the largest company to accept Bitcoin to date — but Newegg is bigger still.


    http://thenextweb.com/insider/2014/01/10/newegg-teaser-suggests-the-us-online-retail-giant-may-begin-accepting-bitcoin-soon/#!r8KVN

    Yeah, might be time to start adapting to the real world and give up on the fantasy that the US Government is "here to help" you.
    Debora Tsung
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #20 - 2014-01-14 07:30:41 UTC
    I just came here to say "NO!" and point you in the general direction of the forum search function.

    Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

    Fighting back is more fun than not.

    Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
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