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Just an idea for your consideration ccp

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Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-01-13 14:47:00 UTC
The reason why you people don't get this crap, is because you lot always create new stupid threads about it, instead of sticking to a single gigantic one.

Besides that... two PLEX for a remap sounds much more reasonable.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#22 - 2014-01-13 15:17:07 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
The reason why you people don't get this crap, is because you lot always create new stupid threads about it, instead of sticking to a single gigantic one.

Besides that... two PLEX for a remap sounds much more reasonable.

Nah. That makes it even more senseless, if anything.

If there were to be a price to it at all, it should be 0 ISK/PLEX/whatever. In other words, if people are annoyed by having to follow the restrictions imposed by the attribute and skill training mechanics, the proper response is to ask for those mechanics to be removed. Only removing them for some makes little to no sense to begin with, and the fewer people for which it is removed, the less sense it makes.
Tebizla
#23 - 2014-01-13 15:18:15 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
The reason why you people don't get this crap, is because you lot always create new stupid threads about it, instead of sticking to a single gigantic one.

Besides that... two PLEX for a remap sounds much more reasonable.


Plex for remap does actually sound reasonable.

+1

Obviously not a forum / spy / market alt ...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#24 - 2014-01-13 15:21:04 UTC
Tebizla wrote:
Plex for remap does actually sound reasonable.
Again, why not just remove attributes if they're that much of a hassle?
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#25 - 2014-01-13 15:23:38 UTC
You can already have your jump clones specialised for learning various skills, so I dont see why you would want a far more expensive version of the same thing.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-01-13 15:23:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelica Dreamstar
Tippia wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
The reason why you people don't get this crap, is because you lot always create new stupid threads about it, instead of sticking to a single gigantic one.

Besides that... two PLEX for a remap sounds much more reasonable.

Nah. That makes it even more senseless, if anything.

If there were to be a price to it at all, it should be 0 ISK/PLEX/whatever. In other words, if people are annoyed by having to follow the restrictions imposed by the attribute and skill training mechanics, the proper response is to ask for those mechanics to be removed. Only removing them for some makes little to no sense to begin with, and the fewer people for which it is removed, the less sense it makes.

And you believe removing it helps how?

Two PLEX are more reasonable than one. The amount of time saved in the long run is more than two PLEX worth of gametime, if one really cares about maxing efficiency.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Tebizla
#27 - 2014-01-13 15:23:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Tebizla wrote:
Plex for remap does actually sound reasonable.
Again, why not just remove attributes if they're that much of a hassle?


Never said they were a hassle Big smile.

I confirmed that the idea sounds more reasonable. A lot more resonable compared to what the OP is suggesting.

Obviously not a forum / spy / market alt ...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#28 - 2014-01-13 15:28:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
And you believe removing it helps how?
I don't. I'm simply saying that what people are asking for is the functional removal of attributes, for whatever reason. If that's what they want gone, why not ask for it to actually be removed? Why turn it into a hideous “skip the mechanic, but only if you can pay for it” design monstrum?

Quote:
Two PLEX are more reasonable than one.
No. One is completely unreasonable. The higher the price, the more unreasonable it gets. The only reasonable price is zero — i.e. the complete removal of the mechanic that people are asking to not be bothered by.

Tebizla wrote:
Never said they were a hassle.
They're apparently enough of a hassle to warrant paying the equivalent of $20 or even $40 to not be bothered by. If this is indeed the case, the sensible thing is to remove the problem outright for everyone rather than make it contingent on the size of your wallet.
Faenir Antollare
For Ever And Ever
#29 - 2014-01-13 15:41:06 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
And you believe removing it helps how?
I don't. I'm simply saying that what people are asking for is the functional removal of attributes, for whatever reason. If that's what they want gone, why not ask for it to actually be removed? Why turn it into a hideous “skip the mechanic, but only if you can pay for it” design monstrum?

Quote:
Two PLEX are more reasonable than one.
No. One is completely unreasonable. The higher the price, the more unreasonable it gets. The only reasonable price is zero — i.e. the complete removal of the mechanic that people are asking to not be bothered by.

Tebizla wrote:
Never said they were a hassle.
They're apparently enough of a hassle to warrant paying the equivalent of $20 or even $40 to not be bothered by. If this is indeed the case, the sensible thing is to remove the problem outright for everyone rather than make it contingent on the size of your wallet.



Have to agree with the above..^
The real problem would be, is that such a function just gives more options to those that can (afford the costs) as to those that simply cannot, to increase cost's to 2xPlex for such a function would make the idea even more untenable than that it is now. Players do like a level playing field when all is said and done.

RiP BooBoo 26/7/1971 - 23/7/2014 My Lady My Love My Life My Wife
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2014-01-13 15:47:53 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
And you believe removing it helps how?
I don't. I'm simply saying that what people are asking for is the functional removal of attributes, for whatever reason. If that's what they want gone, why not ask for it to actually be removed? Why turn it into a hideous “skip the mechanic, but only if you can pay for it” design monstrum?

Quote:
Two PLEX are more reasonable than one.
No. One is completely unreasonable. The higher the price, the more unreasonable it gets. The only reasonable price is zero — i.e. the complete removal of the mechanic that people are asking to not be bothered by.

Tebizla wrote:
Never said they were a hassle.
They're apparently enough of a hassle to warrant paying the equivalent of $20 or even $40 to not be bothered by. If this is indeed the case, the sensible thing is to remove the problem outright for everyone rather than make it contingent on the size of your wallet.

Why would removal be the only option, if all she wants are the ability to buy more?

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-01-13 15:49:46 UTC
Faenir Antollare wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
And you believe removing it helps how?
I don't. I'm simply saying that what people are asking for is the functional removal of attributes, for whatever reason. If that's what they want gone, why not ask for it to actually be removed? Why turn it into a hideous “skip the mechanic, but only if you can pay for it” design monstrum?

Quote:
Two PLEX are more reasonable than one.
No. One is completely unreasonable. The higher the price, the more unreasonable it gets. The only reasonable price is zero — i.e. the complete removal of the mechanic that people are asking to not be bothered by.

Tebizla wrote:
Never said they were a hassle.
They're apparently enough of a hassle to warrant paying the equivalent of $20 or even $40 to not be bothered by. If this is indeed the case, the sensible thing is to remove the problem outright for everyone rather than make it contingent on the size of your wallet.



Have to agree with the above..^
The real problem would be, is that such a function just gives more options to those that can (afford the costs) as to those that simply cannot, to increase cost's to 2xPlex for such a function would make the idea even more untenable than that it is now. Players do like a level playing field when all is said and done.

If they can't afford it, they can't have it. That's how the game works. There's nothing unfair here. Not everybody can buy everything, that's normal and working as intended. Why should it be different for remaps?

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#32 - 2014-01-13 15:52:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Why would removal be the only option, if all she wants are the ability to buy more?

Because the ability to pay to ignore game mechanics is inherently harmful to the integrity of the game. In regular parlance, such things are usually called “exploits”, “hacks”, or “cheats”.

Personally, I would really enjoy being able to pay to not be bothered by the damage mechanics — screw the scrubs who can't afford it too…. See how that works?

Quote:
There's nothing unfair here.
Are you serious?! Ugh
It is pretty much the definition of unfair if the game mechanics treats people differently depending on characteristics that have no connection to the game itself.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2014-01-13 16:07:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelica Dreamstar
Tippia wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Why would removal be the only option, if all she wants are the ability to buy more?

Because the ability to pay to ignore game mechanics is inherently harmful to the integrity of the game. In regular parlance, such things are usually called “exploits”, “hacks”, or “cheats”.

Personally, I would really enjoy being able to pay to not be bothered by the damage mechanics — screw the scrubs who can't afford it too…. See how that works?

Quote:
There's nothing unfair here.
Are you serious?! Ugh
It is pretty much the definition of unfair if the game mechanics treats people differently depending on characteristics that have no connection to the game itself.

The advanced prototype accelerator gives +17 points for seven days and currently costs 2 billion ISK. The prototype one costs 250 million ISK for +9 for 14 days and the standard one gives +3 for 35 days plus 20% RoF bonus, also for around 200 million ISK.*

These were given out to people who bought new accounts and can be bought by new players via contracts, meaning they'll have to push a PLEX into the system to get it.

Okay, that's not really the same. I still don't see the issue though. They only manage to skill faster, but that doesn't make them win the game.

What kind of harm do you see emerging from it?



*Prices may vary, offer only viable for newly created characters.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-01-13 16:10:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelica Dreamstar
Tippia wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Why would removal be the only option, if all she wants are the ability to buy more?

Because the ability to pay to ignore game mechanics is inherently harmful to the integrity of the game. In regular parlance, such things are usually called “exploits”, “hacks”, or “cheats”.

Personally, I would really enjoy being able to pay to not be bothered by the damage mechanics — screw the scrubs who can't afford it too…. See how it works?
Not comparable. The consequences of buying nvincibility are vastly different from those from buying a remap. The remap only allows you to shorten a timeframe, it doesn't remove whole mechanics.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#35 - 2014-01-13 16:16:35 UTC
richie radar wrote:
I would like to see ccp release a micro transaction to...


Remember when your teacher said there were no bad suggestions... she way lying.

I am not much for banning people, but in this case I would definitely be up for a system that lets the community ban you for even suggesting such things.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#36 - 2014-01-13 17:15:51 UTC
richie radar wrote:
I would like to see ccp release a micro transaction...
Stopped reading at this point.

Thread == dead.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2014-01-13 19:20:16 UTC
Sir Jack Falstaff wrote:
Tippia wrote:
There used to be a t-shirt with a map of the EVE cluster on it, and I think some old issues of EON came with both cluster and lowsec-only map posters. So it's definitely something they could put back into their catalogue.

The Eve Store is kind of a head-scratcher. I can see they are committed to only selling high-quality gear, which is admirable, but the choices of merchandise are baffling. A Guristas hoodie and bag? The t-shirt that some characters wear in their avatar? These are obscure and esoteric even for the Eve playerbase.

Guristas hoodie is popular because it allows an EVE player to pass as a Donnie Darko fan to the general public (avoiding the image of being a basement-dwelling MMO nerd) while still being recognizable to other EVE players.

.
Jill Chastot
Black Water Oasis
#38 - 2014-01-13 19:45:35 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Tebizla wrote:
Plex for remap does actually sound reasonable.
Again, why not just remove attributes if they're that much of a hassle?



I remember reading somewhere in a recend dev blog that they were actually looking at removing attribues/replacing them.

/searches

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#39 - 2014-01-13 20:03:51 UTC
Hi,

I've moved this thread to a more appropriate location, thanks!

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#40 - 2014-01-13 20:10:01 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
I still don't see the issue though.
The issue is that you're skipping game mechanics, and that you're only doing it because you pay. Both are horribly bad ideas on their own; together, it's about as awful an idea as they come.

Quote:
Not comparable.
Completely comparable. Skipping game mechanics that apply to everyone else is skipping game mechanics that apply to everyone else. Whether the effect is small or large is irrelevant — what matters is that the mechanics are there to balance out the gameplay and make everyone subject to the same set of coherent and consistent rules. Being allowed to skip any of them is inherently bad. There's a reason why being able to ignore game mechanics is perhaps the most common and universal way to get yourself banned from a game.

Jill Chastot wrote:
I remember reading somewhere in a recend dev blog that they were actually looking at removing attribues/replacing them.
It's in the summer CSM minutes; some of the reps put forward that it's a bad mechanic and a couple of devs agree.
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