EVE New Citizens Q&A

And to add another question....

I always hear people say "Start small, master Frigates... etc etc."

I understand the logic behind this, and understand how it progresses with your skill progress. However, what I fail to understand, is how a new player can be expected to "enjoy" the game, flying only T1 frigates, for the extended period of time it would take before moving on to destroyers, and so on.

What are the truly capabilities of T1 frigates? Obviously T2 frigates and up have more options, but those take 2 months to train to. What would a frigate player do for the 2 months until then???

I tend to play solo, and playing solo, I can tell you 1 thing for sure, T1 frigates are VERY limited in my experience on what is even do-able.

Just curious, I'm not saying it is "wrong" to tell people to master frigates before moving on to bigger ships but...I just wonder what I would be expected to do while playing the game?

1 month straight of nothing but level 1 missions??

That just doesn't seem like fun, and if I'm not having fun.... well I'm not going to play...

This game seems so big in terms of what to do, and how to do it, it seems like as a new player, I have very little to no direction on how to do it. Don't get me wrong... I love having the freedom to do whatever I choose to do. The only issue is, it is based 100% around the skill training. If you train 1 set of skills for a week, and decide "meh, this isn't for me" You have another week of training before you can even begin doing something different. The punishment for diversified training (for new players) is just so harsh.

I "WANT" to be capable of doing PvP, as well as PvE, but within those 2 spectrums, they branch into 5 other directions each. All with weeks upon weeks of skill training to do any 1 single role.

Just not sure how a person could be expected to enjoy the game, by only flying 1 type of small ship, that has such limited use.

If I am wrong about the limitations of solo frigate flying, please correct me, I just don't get it.

I see the problem. You're suffering from the belief that "Bigger is better."

Most MMOs are based around the concept of planned obsolescence. It is the devs that make the significant decisions, all players do in recognize the dev's decision and comply, or deliberately gimp themselves to prove to they can make their own decisions.


Eve is not about planned obsolescence, Eve is a game based on tradeoffs. Every advantage comes with a disadvantage. Your starter ship has some utility that NEVER goes away. Because there is no planned obsolescence, young players can and do contribute to the end game from day 2. People have solo attacked BCs with their humble rookie ship and won, EVERY ship is useful.

People recommend frigates so much because they are effectively the KINGS OF PVP! Frigates make ideal scouts, tacklers, and EW ships. Swarms of frigates are cheap and can put out a ton of dps. Alliances have frigate roams all the time because they are so effective. Many players specialize in frigates and never bother to fly anything bigger. They are not only the best at getting into pvp range, they are also the best at running away if they chose a target that was harder than expected and things start going pear shaped.

Yes, EVE is a sandbox. You will not find direction coming from the game. But there are things you can do. You said you like raiding, well incursions are one thing, you can join an incursion dedicated corp. Or you can go all out and experience REAL raids like nothing in any other MMO. Join a null-sec block. Instead of ganging up on boring NPC, how about fighting battles with THOUSANDS of ships on each side? You only need 2 days of training to fly as a tackler. If you can fit a point and a mwd, you are capable of being a critical member of a corp team.

Yes, as a frigate pilot doing tackle, you will be primary in a delicate ship and will blow up a LOT, but your corp will support you. Any corp that won't replace your ships lost in corp or alliance events isn't worth their name. As you keep rising back from the ashes and strapping on free ships, you will learn skills and contribute to your community and earn the respect of your fleet.

Frigates are so damn hard to hit for larger ships that they can easily warp scramble someone and not let them escape, and slowly, patiently whittle down the bigger ship's tank (or if you aren't solo, while your fleet pops the ship you have trapped down). That's their main use, 'wolfpacks' of frigates are also terrifying opponents.

As for what I'd do - you mention excellent drone skills. Have you considered for-profit ganking of juicy targets in highsec using Vexors?

Thanks for the feedback, and again, I am not claiming that frigates are useless, I am fully aware of a good T1 frigate pilots potential.

However, every bit of feedback on frigates that was given... was towards one thing, and one thing only... PvP.

Other than being a tackler for a group of other ships, or the occasional "potential" for a bigger ship kill, what is the use?

From what I've seen (again, I know I have barely scratched the surface of the game) they are basicly useless for any/all PvE combat, unless I just want to run Level 1 missions for months. I enjoy PvP, but not to the scale of which I think most people who play this game do. That may be my biggest issue, is my leaning towards PvE moreso than PvP, where it seems that you truly do need "bigger the better" to progress in PvE,. Although that simply seems to hurt any/all ability for me to PvP in the meantime.

I dunno... I guess I'm just torn between what I should focus on. I hate limiting myself to 1 style of play, I like options.

I want to logon and say "hey, I wana run some combat sites today" then tomorow... "I want to do some level 4's, then maybe some data/relic sites after"

Flexibility is what I like.

To me it is less about not wanting to fly frigates, and simply more about wanting to have more options of things to do. I feel like I've done a decent jo so far, on keeping track with 1 line of skill training, to atleast keep myself "efficient" in my skill training, but I feel as though where I'm at now, with single skills taking 2,3-9+ days of training, that just seems like a heck of a lot of play time (paid play time) spent on skills that could potentially be useless to me once I get them, if I decide I would have rathered gone w/ a different skill instead.

If I want to truly skill up my frigates, I'm looking at probably close to 20 days of skill training from where I'm at now... That is nearly an entire months worth of time (paid game time) that is spent on something that does me little to no good when it comes to a LOT of other things. (excluding experience)

Then when that 20 days is done, I'm looking at another 20+ days for the next line of ships...

And before you say I'm just too impatient and want everything now, blah blah, that really isn't it either. I have a lot of patients. I enjoy puting a lot of time/effort into something, and having that reward for all the time spent. I would love nothing more than to spend the time to master the ships as I go. I just have a hard time (with how the training is) doing it, knowing that it will greatly slow my progress down in other fields of the game.

If it wasn't 20_++ days for each of these things... or if it wasn't a pay to play... I would never even be coming on the forums asking...

It just sucks to think that I could spend nearly an entire month of paid game time, training skills that I could find out I don't even want to use.

Ultimately, Frigates don't fit my playstyle, I know that much. Cruisers honestly feel like my favorite class of ship. I love my Vexor. However, in PvE, it has it's limitations. As for PvP, maybe my biggest problem is I have nobody to PvP with.

I dunno, I'm just rambling, and QQ'ing.

:D

I WANT IT ALL, AND I WANT IT NEOW

Focus on anything you desire. You don't absolutely NEED to have level 5 skills in anything to try it (in fact, you can train up all the skills within a specialty to level 4 at a fraction of the amount of time it takes to get those skills to level 5 and still be "competitive")... however if you want to become "very good" at a specialty/task/role then there is no getting around that large "time sink."

Soooooo... tldr; short term, train skills related to a specialty/task/role to level 4... long term, find something you like and train the skills to level 5.


I have minimal experience with Incursions. From what I understand, they are "elitist" communities that demand the "best ships and skills" (see: "have ships and skills that pump out lots of damage, apply it, and tank a fair bit").


Train up PvP/combat related skills, fit a ship for PvP, and learn how to operate in a PvP environment. The smaller the ship you use, the better as mobility will save your FAR MORE than any tank you can field.


See every ship out there as a "tool." Some tools are better than others in different respects. And different classes of tools have certain characteristics that are similar and different from other classes of ships.

When someone says "start small, master frigates..." they are actually saying "learn the nuances of the game and how to survive better."
Frigates are VERY good for newbies in that they rely more on player skills and knowledge than in-game character skills to survive in hostile environments. You may not be able to take on a multi-year veteran in a fight... but you have a greater ability to deny that veteran a battle in the first place in a frigate than in a larger ship.
Plus Tech 1 frigates are "dirt cheap" relative to everything else. So you can "experiment" more than you can with bigger ships (which rely more on in-game character skills and proper fittings).

One more thing... this is not a game where "bigger and more expensive is better." With very few exceptions, frigates are always a threat to be taken seriously no matter how "good" you think you or your ship are. A small pack of frigates can EASILY dismantle a cruiser or battleship in mere seconds (provided they know what they are doing).


When I started PvPing (with minimal combat skills to boot) I was often "hero tackle." Basically, my job was to quickly grab potential targets and prevent their escape... at least til my more experienced peers in their heavier and slower ships could arrive.
I would often die (in fact, I can't remember a time where I didn't die doing that). But it taught me valuable lessons regarding "tracking" (how to avoid getting shot), gauging targets (understanding which ships were better equipped to kill me and how quickly they could do it), better survivability (some "beefier" setups would often die faster than "fragile" ones because they were simply slower), and how to maneuver at high speed (most frigates can be made to go VERY fast).

I also performed "salvage and loot duty" for my more experienced peers in missions (fit a destroyer with 4 salvagers, 4 tractor beams and cargo expanders).

I once knew a newbie who focused primarily on using probes and D-scan. It was a small and quick to train skillset... he helped us pinpoint potential targets "hiding" in the middle of space.
And in his spare time he ran around in his frigate doing data/relic sites and/or often scouted for Player Owned Starbases we (the more experienced players with heavier equipment) could blow up for profit

I currently have a newbie in my corp and his sole job right now is "catching" targets that come through stargates (because frigates can target MUCH faster than larger ships).

I have also sometimes indulged in "wolfpack" fleets with other veterans and newbies. Get everyone into "disposable" frigates and just roam around, engaging everything that we come across (and maybe running a profitable combat site for giggles).

My Blaster Harpy blitzing through Level 3 missions made me tell that you are incorrect.

And what in the world will prevent you from using a Battleship in a level 4 mission

AND fly a frigate in PvP?


Only possible reason I can think about...instant gratification.

You won't find that in EVE, EVE is more about planning and long(ish) term goals.

Same for solo stuff...it makes the game harder (but not impossible).
It is after all a MMO, so try to get to know people and talk to them or even fly with them. It makes things easier.

In the off-chance a new player reads this far:

Nothing teaches you how not to be caught like experienced prey.

Honestly, hop in a t1 crap fit frigate and just try to catch someone.

The ones you catch will teach you. What NOT to do, and the ones you miss will teach you what TO do.

Even if your a pure into pilot to who "tears" is a tired meme, good stuff is out in the dangerous space and knowing how to survive out there is a game changer even if you never skill t2 guns ever in your life.

You may even find yourself trying new stuff just to catch someone, it may even work. This may even happen during a 30 day train for your orca.

Yeah but that doesn't really help with what he is trying to do, not directly at least. Pirating is not the same as being focused on PvE. A pirate might probe you down, find out what type of mission you are doing, fit for the right resistance and damage type, the right ship. It's more about opportunity, because often the mission or complex runner will be weaker in comparison to the pirate that prepared for pvp while the target is fitted to deal with those rats. Going out and doing actual 1v1 pvp or what have you will not really be all that valuable to understand how to defend against piracy on your PVE runs.

Generally, you will want to understand evasion tactics, because the guy showing up on your mission has already measured you as his next target and fitted to blow you out of the sky at no risk to himself (lol pvp). What you do is fit to resist and evade, which is also a form of pvp. Be aware of your surroundings, scan for probes, break and return to dock at first sign.

Now, step two if you wish to deal with this "pvp"er, have a Falcon or something at your station, already fitted to gank a pirate fitted to gank your mission boat fitted to kill rats, and warp back to your mission. But step two not required, personal preference.

Thanks for proving my point.

If OP does some pirating stuff hunting said PvE players...he LEARNS how those pirates work, and thus can prevent it from happening to him (aka learn how to find probes on D-scan).

Q.E.D. As a prey, learn how the predator works to find you.

Also, please point out in my post where I said he should 1v1...or that he should do 'honorable" basic PvP fights.