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An Open Letter to the Wormhole Community

Author
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
#81 - 2014-01-09 15:02:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Rall Mekin
Sith1s Spectre wrote:
Sorry Rall, I don't agree with you on this one.

Sith


I'm just glad conversation is taking place. The power an idea is not that it is initially agreed with, but that it is good, and will spread. If this is a bad idea, I hope it dies horribly and isn't considered again.

I will tell you, our corp whether alone or part of any alliance we join:

- Will always keep our word in PVP
- Will try to develop strategies to downgrade the blob
- We take gudfights and honor fights, and fight our hardest

I do not mean to sound superior or moralizing. I am no one here to do so. We are young, our accomplishments and battle hardening is no match for many groups here. We are what we are, but I am trying to produce an idea for the benefit of the community, because I love wormhole space, and in creepy, transcendental way, I love you all.

You make this game worth playing. It'd be pretty boring if we all agreed on everything, or all fought in the same doctrines, with the same techniques, etc. As much as being evicted sucks (I've been through it twice in my past), it does create content, and it causes even seeing an enemy scan alt to stir the adrenaline afterwards.
Red Garsk
#82 - 2014-01-09 15:27:43 UTC
Axloth Okiah wrote:
Pancake King wrote:
That means if we see Noho, Red Coat, SSC and countless others, we POS up.
Thats just sad. If you want to pvp, whats stopping you from saying "hey, we cant fight you like that, lets arrange something"?


HTFU comes to mind when reading this thread... really...

You're all blind to the problem or to the solution. First of all, in Wormholes anything goes, if you get jumped by a 30 man fleet when you're running sites with 2 drakes, well... that's a ****** day for you. You don't have to like it but it's something you'll have to accept.

You can dislike the tactics but I think it's even more dislikable to ask for arranged fights, pathetic... Stand your ground, spit everyone in the face and be mad max thunderdome instead of cry babies asking for fair fights... Nothing in Eve is fair.

I completely agree that battphoning is lame, blue-ing everyone is lame and yes, 30 man fleets v.s 2 Drakes is lame too... I do not support Alliances in Wormholes but that's my personal opinion. I think we are meant to be pirates, scavengers and we hunt targets of opportunity... I love to play and stick to that role / type of wormholer.

The problem will be solved when the wormhole community remembers where they came from... You are Scavengers, Pirates and you pillage and plunder other people with your tight little group, you don't blue anyone, you don't arrange fights, you **** and pillage... That's your Mad Max Thunderdome, anything else is Nullsec wannabes.

Again, this is my personal opinion... Don't hate me for speaking my mind, I just think a lot of you have degraded into nullseccers without the sov grinding and you forgot where you came from.
HerrBert
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2014-01-09 15:53:34 UTC  |  Edited by: HerrBert
Walextheone wrote:

3. Bears, just want to be left alone to make isk.



Hunting season anyone?

Also Mr Red you speak a fair point, but it is an ignorant one, which doesnt mean i hate you know, it's just you are missing one fact and it's one of my all time favorite convos:


Bert: So how can we fix the mess we are in?
Someone in a Highranking Corp of a Big Wormhole thingy: I'm thinking of kicking half the corp.

The days of the "Thunderdome" have passed when we stopped being elitest and selfabsorbed pricks and now we have a lot of "little Maxes" that want to play too... do you really want to kick your friends, so you can be TRUE WORMHOLE!

If you want the Mad Max days then your skill requirements need to go above the 20m SP mark again, with all scanning skills "maxed" every alt being able to fly covert ops and have at least 1 shiny T3 from the get go... great times but **** WAS WORMHOLES EMPTY BACK THEN!!!!!.... Also whats this Blue donut everybody is talking about?????? As far as i know Wormhole Corps at least the big ones operate on an on-call base ... and blabb the **** out of each other when the collide....

Looking at the scary wormhole people that met with Whale Girth yesterday....and saying "arranged" fights are ******** is exactly the notorious bullshit that people dont get...

What is an arranged fight?
Aggressor ****** up the gank and is bored because **** .. again
Defender hides behind the Forcefield and goes well: "We are not gonna use this opportunity to learn"

I met many people that say .. you learn from your losses no matter what.... like i said people who pos up deserve to be sieged... and i cannot believe i m saying this but for example NOHO, the gentlemen of Wormholes will go down on numbers for you if you busted them while they tried to sneak up on you ... so you have an opportunity to thrive in the enviroment....and learn and evolve so you can strike back at them. If you get ganked ... accept the fact that you are victim but dont accept the fact that you will be a victim forever, because if you do that you can easily have more fun in other parts of eve then wormholes ....

Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx

Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#84 - 2014-01-09 18:56:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Nucleus
Commas are the new period.

In all seriousness, if more people worried less about supposed "player rules" and do whatever you want, you'd have more fun. I say if you are a small entity, find some more small entities and do joint ops in deeper wh space. That way you have the people to shoot anything you come across. FUN FOR ALL!

No trolling please

HerrBert
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#85 - 2014-01-09 19:25:59 UTC
Bane Nucleus wrote:
Commas are the new period.

In all seriousness, if more people worried less about supposed "player rules" and do whatever you want, you'd have more fun. I say if you are a small entity, find some more small entities and do joint ops in deeper wh space. That way you have the people to shoot anything you come across. FUN FOR ALL!



or join bobisgreat and meet other players and blow **** up in null :D

Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx

Red Garsk
#86 - 2014-01-09 19:29:18 UTC
Bane Nucleus wrote:
Commas are the new period.

In all seriousness, if more people worried less about supposed "player rules" and do whatever you want, you'd have more fun.


I agree with this part of your statement.

I read a lot of posts from "larger" wormhole entities that complain the smaller guys aren't providing fights, and yet they state the blue-balling is getting out of hand.

In many ways WH space is still the most balanced area of the game because it provides an equal opportunity to make money and do PvP but on the forums the overall voice of the PvPers is heard the loudest, saying they dislike the care-bears for possing up and doing PvE content.

I would argue that you let the PvE guys do what they do best, otherwise your T3 cruiser gang will become too expensive to fly and I would argue that each area of the game needs both type of players to survive. I pray on PvE content players, while doing the content myself, I hunt these people when I come across them and in return I can expect the same.

This debate is being held on the Highsec, lowsec and nullsec fronts aswell... It's the same old bla bla.

Pancake King
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#87 - 2014-01-09 21:27:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Pancake King
Pancake King wrote:
If you want us to engage, you need to lead, not criticise. If you see two drakes running sites, jump them with two prot and tell everyone else to chill. If they escalate, you escalate. But don't start with 20 guys to two. Having an advantage is fine. Giving someone no hope, regardless of how well they play, is going to prevent repeat engagements.


Axloth Okiah wrote:

So what should we do to make you happy when we enter a system with someone PvEing? Politely announce our presence in local and ask you to return from the anomaly to your POS before we proceed any further? Is that what you do in order to get 'good fights'?.


See, these conversations are a waste of time when you're not even going to read what others post. It's you telling me to change, ignoring what I say and refusing to accept that you have played some part in the current state of affairs.

FYI - it was SSC that tried to jump my buddy with the 12 ships to kill his Legion. I believe the quote in local after you guys ballsed it up was "Just another bear, typical *&^(ing coward."

I'm giving suggestions on how to meet half way, you just want me to change to keep the bullies happy. If you think the actions of the guys above is going to help you get good fights, the status-co remains. If you think not, tell them to pull their heads in. You've fished the pond dry, you need to catch and release.
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#88 - 2014-01-09 21:53:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Nucleus
Pancake King wrote:


FYI - it was SSC that tried to jump my buddy with the 12 ships to kill his Legion. I believe the quote in local after you guys ballsed it up was "Just another bear, typical *&^(ing coward."


To quote my highest of society space bro GeneralJosh, #shotsfired

SSC, you stand accused. How do you plead?

No trolling please

Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#89 - 2014-01-09 22:23:54 UTC
HerrBert wrote:
Bane Nucleus wrote:
Commas are the new period.

In all seriousness, if more people worried less about supposed "player rules" and do whatever you want, you'd have more fun. I say if you are a small entity, find some more small entities and do joint ops in deeper wh space. That way you have the people to shoot anything you come across. FUN FOR ALL!

or join bobisgreat and meet other players and blow **** up in null :D

please stop posting about NS in the WH forums. ktnx.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

HerrBert
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#90 - 2014-01-09 23:10:28 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
HerrBert wrote:
Bane Nucleus wrote:
Commas are the new period.

In all seriousness, if more people worried less about supposed "player rules" and do whatever you want, you'd have more fun. I say if you are a small entity, find some more small entities and do joint ops in deeper wh space. That way you have the people to shoot anything you come across. FUN FOR ALL!

or join bobisgreat and meet other players and blow **** up in null :D

please stop posting about NS in the WH forums. ktnx.



make me

Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx

Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#91 - 2014-01-09 23:18:42 UTC
Promise not to hug the station if he tries to make you? Lol

No trolling please

Xtrah
Overload This
#92 - 2014-01-09 23:50:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Xtrah
Bane Nucleus wrote:
Promise not to hug the station if he tries to make you? Lol


It's not that bad, but he would definitely hug the high sec wormhole ...
Dmitry Wizard
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#93 - 2014-01-10 00:59:48 UTC
Xtrah wrote:
Bane Nucleus wrote:
Promise not to hug the station if he tries to make you? Lol


It's not that bad, but he would definitely hug the high sec wormhole ...

#shotsfired

"Wormhole corps are like a bunch of homeschooled kids"

Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#94 - 2014-01-10 04:40:30 UTC
HerrBert wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
please stop posting about NS in the WH forums. ktnx.
make me


Oh look... conflict driver.

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

E-mail: diogenes.proc@gmail.com

My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/

The Diogenes Club | Join W-Space | Down The Pipe

Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#95 - 2014-01-10 04:47:07 UTC
Proclus Diadochu wrote:
HerrBert wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
please stop posting about NS in the WH forums. ktnx.
make me

Oh look... conflict driver.

Lol

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Nash MacAllister
Air
The Initiative.
#96 - 2014-01-10 17:53:24 UTC
Sith1s Spectre wrote:

However, when it started becoming an issue where we'd put a fleet out and put the static crit or close to we realised it was time to move. You only have to look at groups such as n0mex or SUSU who have had quite a bit of success with the lower class holes.


Some good and interesting points being made.

If people aren't happy or satisfied doing what they are doing, try something different. I have said this before and it seems pertinent in this discussion. It isn't the size of the group that determines what a fight looks like, it is the structure and attitude. N0MEX and previously KAIRS/CLANN have been very successful in C2 space over the years. We stay because it suits us, and we never felt the need to move on to higher class wh.

There is still much small gang PVP to be had. And although we did recently join SYJ, it was not to become the biggest guy on the block, it was for content, pure and simple. I am now able to better offer different and structured content to my members in areas of the game they may not have played before. Be it C5/C6 PVP or PVE, NS, LS, or whatever. But we as a corp chose to retain our identity, and carry on what I believe to be a successful run as a low class wh resident, and small gang PVP corp. We do not regularly call on Alliance for normal hunting, but it is fun to fly with a bigger group as opportunities arise. The bottom line is that the situation is fun, and people enjoy what they have available.

Choices folks, make your own, to facilitate getting what you want of the game.

Yes, if you have to ask yourself the question, just assume we are watching you...

Xar Pahineh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#97 - 2014-01-10 22:17:07 UTC
I have to say I like most of this thread, and have read every single post just now. I want to say this up front, if you do check my killboard, it sucks... I was a total carebear until I joined w space a year or so ago and PvP never really comes to me easily as I game way to late pacific time. I do wish I'd get more kills in w-space then null, (or losses), but that's what it's like living in w-space, and I accept that.

We (Suicide) have rolled into other wormholes, shown #'s, and used diplo channels to discuss a fight. We've also surprised the hell out of people and done a "blop" - however our blops are not 30 man t3 fleets with tons of logi, we'll blop with 3 or 4 logi at most, and most often it's with 2.

Rail, I liked your intro post and I commend you for trying to create somewhat of an honor system with other wormhole corps. That will work for some, and like has been said in this very thread, others will just end up blopping the 2 drakes running sites... that's part of the game. I know the c5/c6 site runners make enough isk to field more ships, and if you don't you're doing it wrong. I've bought ships only to lose them within the hour, I still have a few legions laying around that I've had for over 6 months (and they've seen combat!).

We all know what corps are known to do and when we see them in our hole or we roll into them we know what to expect. I don't ask anybody to change their style, but don't be surprised if we do pop into your public (or anybody elses) one day and say we'd like to fight, you game? we've done this on occasion and it's been fun, we've also been on the receiving end of that request and brought the fight when we had #'s.

The great thing about w-space is the randomness of it, one day your static is empty, the next day it's a well known corp... I love w-space and can't imagine playing the game not in w-space, and although I hear the screams for more content and changes, what I really think w-space needs is more corps occupying it.
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#98 - 2014-01-11 04:16:59 UTC
+1 for Suicide Express

No trolling please

Duke Wendo
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2014-01-12 18:16:09 UTC
So much rubbish being thrown around- I thought I'd add mine.

Wormhole space, like low and null is lawless... there's no rules of combat except to win.

You don't like blobs? Tough. You don't like being ganked while running a site? Tough. HTFU or GTFO.

I'm one of those people who think there isn't enough to fight over, hate the pointless arranged fights- see no reason why I would want to fight for no reason other than we share a connection.

I'm also not interested in ganking badly fit ships running sites- I used to do that kind of stuff when I was new.

If there was some reason to fight- for example I could cause some damage to your stuff or steal it or something where I would gain something for attacking you- I'd be happy.

Right now the only thing I get from a fight (apart from enjoyment if I overcome a challenge) is I get to loot the field and that really is poor. I could take it or leave it.

I want consequences. I want something great to fight for. Something that makes me feel like I've earned something after overcoming odds stacked against me. Where is my prize for winning?

What is there in W-space to fight over? Unless there is bad blood between people in alliances, there really is little point.
There are so many w-space systems, there really is plenty for everyone.

I get the whole sandbox thing and the 'make your own goals' angle and w-space is the best space, but it's still pretty bland.

PLSE GIF MOAR CONTENT!
Apollo Eros
Percussive Diplomacy
Sedition.
#100 - 2014-01-14 01:33:04 UTC
I would like to add my two cents.

One of the EVE commercials that brought a lot of us into this BOB Forsaken game was "The Butterfly Effect" This video demonstrated that the smallest entity can blob up fast. The name gets out next thing you know there are 100 men and boom. You are now a blob.

The things we (and others) enjoy practicing is bringing out smaller groups. Looking for the gud fight. But what happens when you have 15 guys online and one finds a gank, target, or a gang, the blob will come. There are always those that want to whore. There are two sides to this. One the corp did their job. They created content to the extent that others wanted to join. You can do things like I know many do and put caps on corps etc. To try and keep the small to medium gang pvp going. But hey most of us are guys. If the fight gets kicked off everyone and their mom will come and try to whore on this delicious cheese cake.

But Wormhole space is unique and provides a very easy way to counter the blob. You can mass you hole only allowing certain amounts of ships to bring in. There have been numerous occasions where we have closed the connection behind us in a hostile system just for the gud fights.

Fighting in a wormhole is like going into a knife fight blindfolded. Credible intel is a must, because you are really going in blind and do not know what the other side has. Even if you have been scouting for hours there is always a chance for the unknown variable.

[Triple OG LVL 5 Space Wizard]