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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#41 - 2014-01-09 12:16:43 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
It's very simple. Ore != Isk. To buy the ore, the isk comes from somewhere else. Isk is only introduced when an NPC pays you for something.
Instead because of the basic supply & demand, mining bots generate larger supply making for lower prices. In saying that, miners are doing better than they have for a while, but relative to T1 Ship prices, Miners income will always be static unless the yield is changed on the primary mining ships. Since T1 ships prices are directly related to mineral costs.

I think he's getting at the fundamental illogic and hypocrisy in saying that one type of unchecked and rampant injection of wealth is somehow less damaging to the economy than another type of unchecked and rampant injection of wealth.

Just because an activity is deflationary rather than inflationary doesn't mean it's not hideously bad. It hits every equally regardless.
Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#42 - 2014-01-09 12:20:50 UTC
Posting in a stealth "wah wah people are richer than me wah" thread..... Oh wait not so stealth


0.0 is in many circumstances a lot safer then highsec. With dedicated ratting systems, sov, pos's and intel channels, if you die in 0.0 outside of a large blob fest.. YOU...ARE...DOING..IT...WRONG!

Highsec is pretty dangerous, especially if you are oblivious to its mechanics. There is a justified reason why many "yaarr harr" pirates make highsec their home and gank/bait, missioners, transporters and even miners.... There is great money to be made by PvPing in highsec.

On that note - you can make a lot of money ganking/pvping in highsec.... If OP truly wants to nerf highsec income CCP need to buff concord, and nerf ganking, make 0.5-1.0 a no combat zone period. Then you wont have people making billions of isk ganking in what a few seconds.. time invested/reward is way off here. Hell BAN scammers, that's another example of highsec income being too high, make tho's jita spammers move to alliances and spam alliance chat ;)

The fact a lot of 0.0 people complain is they see the grass as greener, they dislike the fact people actually have ISK spare, instead of complaining about it, why not go "farm the farmers" kill yourself a few mission runners.. you know put the effort in... don't just come to forums or QQ to friends trying to make CCP change the game because you cant be bothered to put any effort in.

Dont just [u]think[/u] outside the box, [u]Live[/u] outside of it...
Billy Hix
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#43 - 2014-01-09 12:21:08 UTC
Heavy nerf to Hi Sec = CCP goes bust.

Majority of the players in Eve are in High. Majority of those players are there because they don't want to play in 0.0/low/WH. If you force them to many will quit.

When CCP loses the majority of its income they go bust. No more Eve.

Pretty simple really.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#44 - 2014-01-09 12:25:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
TharOkha wrote:
OP, your current view on hisec is seriously biased.

in fact, hisec is largest constant battleground in new edden. Most of the pirates (true pirates) are in hisec 0.5 because loot from plundering freighters is nowhere near to lowsec plunder.

Yes there are some aspects in hisec that needs to be changed or nerfed. But your proposal is just another "all of eve should be nullsec"

..and its interesting that most of GD threads about "nerf hisec, want moar targets" comes form one year old "l33t PvPers".


Posting to confirm there is plenty of PvP in highsec. I spent all my early Eve years in sov null, NPC null, and lowsec looking for PvP. Turns out there is plenty of PvP to be had in highsec. Highsec needs some serious tweeks, but the space itself doesn't really need a 'nerf' per se.

Also, as should be a standard reply, if you don't like how life is in highsec then bugger off somewhere else. Simple as that. You don't hear the WH dwellers complaining that they want a local chat and CONCORD... if you don't want either of those things in highsec then the simple answer is to move to WH space.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#45 - 2014-01-09 12:27:55 UTC
Billy Hix wrote:
Majority of the players in Eve are in High.
What do you base this claim on?

Quote:
Majority of those players are there because they don't want to play in 0.0/low/WH. If you force them to many will quit.
…to say nothing of this claim.
Pewty McPew
EVE Corporation 2357451
#46 - 2014-01-09 12:29:59 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Hello.

My prediction: Suddenly EVE becomes much more fun, and a better game in general.

Bots are no longer worthwhile as they make easy targets for PvPers.
The EVE economy becomes dominated by intelligent humans, not machines or "bot aspirant" grinders.

Due to the rapid deflation of the market, low and nullsec players find it much easier to use ingame methods to make ISK
(as their main competition, the botting/multiboxing afk/semi afk hisec players' advantage has been nullified.)

Solo and small gang pvp can now be found in abundance as there are targets and organisations of varying sizes everywhere.

Politics and the metagame get a lot deeper as even PvE focused gamers would have to consider how other players affect their gameplay.


What are your thoughts on what would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?


70% or greater of the playerbase quits.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#47 - 2014-01-09 12:30:32 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Billy Hix wrote:
Majority of the players in Eve are in High.
What do you base this claim on?


Open up the star map and select "average players in space over 30 mins" or whatever it says. See where lights up the most. That's a fair indication, if nothing else. I would have thought it went without saying that most Eve players spend more time in highsec than anywhere else.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#48 - 2014-01-09 12:32:52 UTC
Also refer to CCP CSM notes saying that players who come through PvE rather than into PvP early actually have a greater retention rate. In that people who go into PvP early often move on much faster.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#49 - 2014-01-09 12:33:47 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Open up the star map and select "average players in space over 30 mins" or whatever it says. See where lights up the most. That's a fair indication, if nothing else.
…but it's not any actual or verifiable data.

Quote:
I would have thought it went without saying that most Eve players spend more time in highsec than anywhere else.
Many people do, but thinking it doesn't actually prove anything, and “go without saying” is just a different way of saying “I have no idea and I don't want to find out.”
Cale Nolen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#50 - 2014-01-09 12:36:29 UTC
Although id love CCP to blow up HI-Sec in all honesty it would probably need a new game for it to be done
Kira Enomoto
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#51 - 2014-01-09 12:40:38 UTC
I love threads like this. People in a sandboks game saying that their way of building a sandcastle is the only correct way to do things, and that any other way should be nerfed/removed.

No.1: That guys is using a shovel to build hist castle, nerf shovels.

No.2: No nerf buckets, they make castle building to fast.

Me: /popcorn Big smile
corporal hicks
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2014-01-09 12:42:21 UTC
As a person who done there fair share of null sec from 2003 up until eve became capital ships online, I now like to spend my time in High sec running missions or mining with afew friends and enjoying the game at our own pace.

I would 100% quit Eve if I was forced to constantly pvp due to all eve becoming a free for all shooting match, if I wanted constant Pvp i'd just play counterstrike.

I'm most likely not the only person that would feel that way and I am sure CCP knows that, your never going to see what your asking for, might as well just let Zombies lose again in Yulai..well maybe Jita nowdays and for anyone old enough to remember that event you can imagine the carnage on a more massive scale.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#53 - 2014-01-09 12:53:36 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:


[quote]So the statistics don't support claiming no significant PvP happens in high sec.


Point to me where I claimed anything of the sort. Quote and Link, buddy.
(As a point of fact, I described not one full page ago how one organization in HS had over a quarter million PvP kills last year. I'd characterize that as pretty significant.)

So that's... naught for three. But good hustle.


It's always a clear sign of a bad thinker when they jump to a conclusion (ie "claiming their is NO significant PvP") that no one ever mentioned. There is PvP in high sec of course, just not a lot compared to it's MASSIVE population.

EVE's economy runs on consumption (ships dying, modules dying with those ships), and the bulk of that consumption occurs outside of high sec, mostly in null sec. High sec only posters tend to go through all manner of mental gymnastics trying to deny this fact.
Billy Hix
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#54 - 2014-01-09 13:02:27 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Billy Hix wrote:
Majority of the players in Eve are in High.
What do you base this claim on?


CCP released stats on it at fanfest a few years ago.

Quote:
Majority of those players are there because they don't want to play in 0.0/low/WH. If you force them to many will quit.
…to say nothing of this claim.
[/quote]

If you believe that high sec carebears who don't want to PvP will suddenly start Pvping because you want them to, then there is little hope for you.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#55 - 2014-01-09 13:07:47 UTC
Billy Hix wrote:
CCP released stats on it at fanfest a few years ago.
Nope. They've never produced any data on where players are (largely because they don't have any such data themselves).

Quote:
If you believe that high sec carebears who don't want to PvP will suddenly start Pvping because you want them to, then there is little hope for you.
What I believe is that you haven't polled a representative sample of highsec players to have even the slightest idea what motivates and guides the decisions of a majority of them.
Josef Djugashvilis
#56 - 2014-01-09 13:10:11 UTC
OP is an attention seeking troll with absolutely no imagination or power of original thought.

This is not a signature.
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#57 - 2014-01-09 13:24:04 UTC
The majority of bots I have seen have been operating in null and low sec.

Heck, one was running courier missions straight through a pirate corporation's home system. Hour after hour. Day after day. No wonder the pirates had long gone tired of blowing up tech 1 industrials for no reward at all.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

TharOkha
0asis Group
#58 - 2014-01-09 13:25:51 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Jenn aSide wrote:

EVE's economy runs on consumption (ships dying, modules dying with those ships), and the bulk of that consumption occurs outside of high sec, mostly in null sec. High sec only posters tend to go through all manner of mental gymnastics trying to deny this fact.


Ok according 2011 statistics (pre-suspect flags and killright changes) PVE+PVP

8,2m destroyed ships in HS
4,6m LS
7,6m NULL sec

Yes, majority of PVP deaths are in null and low. But as you said, EVEs economy runs of consumption. And It does not mater if those ships were lost in PVP or PVE.

And speaking of mental gymnastics. If you want to deny the fact that HS drives 40% of EVE economy then you should do some mental exercises too.

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#59 - 2014-01-09 13:50:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
TharOkha wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

EVE's economy runs on consumption (ships dying, modules dying with those ships), and the bulk of that consumption occurs outside of high sec, mostly in null sec. High sec only posters tend to go through all manner of mental gymnastics trying to deny this fact.


Ok according 2011 statistics (pre-suspect flags and killright changes) PVE+PVP

8,2m destroyed ships in HS
4,6m LS
7,6m NULL sec

Yes, majority of PVP deaths are in null and low. But as you said, EVEs economy runs of consumption. And It does not mater if those ships were lost in PVP or PVE.

And speaking of mental gymnastics. If you want to deny the fact that HS drives 40% of EVE economy then you should do some mental exercises too.


Yea, because the FRIGATES getting killed in high sec totally equal the BCs, BSs, caps and super caps that die in null sec. Or did you miss the part about how the most killed ship in high sec mentioned in that DEV blog was the CONDOR?

At current prices a single Nidhoggur (the cheapest carrier) kill is worth about 3500 Condors (that's just hull price, i doubt the condor is going to be carrying fighters or has items in it's fleet hanger........).. You kill 14 or 15 carriers in a null sec cap fight, you just killed more value than ALL the condors killed in high sec over a 4 year period.....

Also, I guess you don't know that many of those frigates that are among the top ships killed in high sec aren't a part of the eve economy but rather generated by npcs as gifts for completing tutorials...

There is a reason why the word "delusional' tends to come to my mind when someone says "high sec'.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#60 - 2014-01-09 13:55:43 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
The majority of bots I have seen have been operating in null and low sec.
You probably haven't been looking very closely, since last we heard, a majority of them are in highsec. Hell, 55% of them were in Caldari space alone — three highsec regions in and of themselves accounted for more than half the bots…