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Small clans express concern over Parliament reorganisation

Author
Constantly Outraged Sebiestor
Gutter Press
#1 - 2014-01-06 14:32:53 UTC
With the recent reorganisation of the Tribal Assembly and Republic Parliament bringing change to politics across Minmatar space, many people are enthusiastic about the prospect of a new age for the Minmatar people.

However, some are not as pleased about the changes.

The Republic Parliament being reduced to 35 members, 5 from each Tribe, is causing concern for some of the smaller clans spread over Republic space.

"It's all right for the Matar clans, for sure, but what are we doing out here in Eystur? Sitting on our thumbs?" said one Sebiestor woman, from one of the Eystur clans.

"See, now what's good for Mirkamurka on Matar, isn't the same as what's good for Hadaugago, now is it?" said another Sebiestor from the outer worlds.

Other outer worlds clans have different opinions.

"See, those Sveipar clans don't get it. Complaining to the Republic Parliament. They're too used to it, being that close to Pator. Whereas, out here in Stadakorn, we're far from the Parliament. We've had to be self-reliant. And that's a good thing. More Minmatar have to be self reliant, stop sucking on the Gallente teat. The metaphorical one. I have no problem with pleasure hubs, what am I, an Amarrian?" said one travelling Sebiestor starship engineer.

The future will tell how this works out for the Minmatar people.



In other news, Amarrian operatives from the Noble Appliances corporation, are rumoured to be behind a wave of breaking and entering into Minmatar pilot's quarters, leaving behind suspicious clothing items, including t-shirts, dresses, and shoes. The Republic Security Services have declined to comment at this time.
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2014-01-06 15:10:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayallah
This article displays an innate lack of understanding and seems to be written from a Gallentean or pre-unification perspective on parliament and the functions of it.

I wonder how long it will take before the people of the Republic understand the changes. That they are not bound to the populist government practices of the former government.

All Tribal matters belong to the Tribes. How they choose to govern and regulate themselves is completely up to them and their chief. The Parliament seats can be chosen however the Tribe who owns them wishes.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

Kyllsa Siikanen
Tuonelan Virta
#3 - 2014-01-06 15:31:58 UTC
Trust me.

Those of us on Mikramurka do not intend to forget our brothers and sisters in Hadaugago or Eystur or anywhere else, for that matter.

To do so would be to weaken ourselves, if nothing else. A united Tribe is a strong Tribe.

“Crying is all right in its own way while it lasts. But you have to stop sooner or later, and then you still have to decide what to do.” 

― C.S. Lewis 

Karynn Denton
Lekhantsi Salvage Depot
#4 - 2014-01-06 16:02:11 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
All Tribal matters belong to the Tribes. How they choose to govern and regulate themselves is completely up to them and their chief.


Absolutely.
Makes you wonder what the point of the Republic actually is.

Constantly Outraged Sebiestor wrote:
In other news, Amarrian operatives from the Noble Appliances corporation, are rumoured to be behind a wave of breaking and entering into Minmatar pilot's quarters, leaving behind suspicious clothing items, including t-shirts, dresses, and shoes. The Republic Security Services have declined to comment at this time.


I don't get what's so suspicious about t-shirts and shoes, but I can fully understand the concern over dresses.
I'd sooner trust a dealer from the Heath than a woman in a dress!

Karynn Denton

Caravan Master

Kyllsa Siikanen
Tuonelan Virta
#5 - 2014-01-06 16:20:52 UTC
Karynn Denton wrote:
Ayallah wrote:
All Tribal matters belong to the Tribes. How they choose to govern and regulate themselves is completely up to them and their chief.


Absolutely.
Makes you wonder what the point of the Republic actually is.

Constantly Outraged Sebiestor wrote:
In other news, Amarrian operatives from the Noble Appliances corporation, are rumoured to be behind a wave of breaking and entering into Minmatar pilot's quarters, leaving behind suspicious clothing items, including t-shirts, dresses, and shoes. The Republic Security Services have declined to comment at this time.


I don't get what's so suspicious about t-shirts and shoes, but I can fully understand the concern over dresses.
I'd sooner trust a dealer from the Heath than a woman in a dress!


How rude!

*grins*

“Crying is all right in its own way while it lasts. But you have to stop sooner or later, and then you still have to decide what to do.” 

― C.S. Lewis 

Del Vikus
Sundered Core
#6 - 2014-01-06 16:26:44 UTC
I think this is a reasonable concern, and one that the new Tribal Council should look to clarify or address as soon as possible. The Parliamentary structure certainly gave more voice to the outer worlds -- although I'd hardly call Eystur "outer" -- in the inner circle. While I agree with my fellow posters here that the new structure will give local freedom to all Minmatar worlds, the change does have the appearance of weakening the voice of distant worlds within the central regions of power.

I don't think that concerns such as this should be dismissed. It appears that a thorough education campaign is needed, to essentially re-introduce the Minmatar people to the workings of Tribal Rule. Those of us who are actively involved in Republic politics are mostly enthusiastic about these changes, but we would be fools to assume this is a universal feeling, or that our new (old) system is perfect simply because it has the endorsement of prominent voices.
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#7 - 2014-01-06 19:23:02 UTC
Kyllsa Siikanen wrote:
Trust me.

Those of us on Mikramurka do not intend to forget our brothers and sisters in Hadaugago or Eystur or anywhere else, for that matter.

To do so would be to weaken ourselves, if nothing else. A united Tribe is a strong Tribe.


It would be "instructive" if a precious little Matari pumpkinhead actually tried to lay out what the word "tribe" meant to it. You idiots have never understood your own cultural heritage, and odds are you never will.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#8 - 2014-01-06 19:26:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
I am no expert in tribes and subtribes. If what the piece of news explains is true, then clans unaffiliated to one of the seven major tribes will indeed lose their voice in the central administration, and as much as their local, regional powers and autonomy will increase, they will also have to join one of the Tribes to continue to have any voice or influence in the central matters of national importance.

It almost sounds like a badly disguised coup from the Tribes to lock the governement for themselves. There is something rather... Amarrian, in that idea.

Of course, if there are no unaffiliated clans in the Republic, forget what I said. I have unfortunately no sources on such cases.
Del Vikus
Sundered Core
#9 - 2014-01-06 19:42:33 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
I am no expert in tribes and subtribes. If what the piece of news explains is true, then clans unaffiliated to one of the seven major tribes will indeed lose their voice in the central administration, and as much as their local, regional powers and autonomy will increase, they will also have to join one of the Tribes to continue to have any voice or influence in the central matters of national importance.

It almost sounds like a badly disguised coup from the Tribes to lock the governement for themselves. There is something rather... Amarrian, in that idea.

Of course, if there are no unaffiliated clans in the Republic, forget what I said. I have unfortunately no sources on such cases.


There aren't really any clans unaffiliated with Tribes. By dint of birth, all clans will be connected at some stage through a Tribe.

There are, however, many clanless Minmatar -- those who have for various reasons been born outside of a clan house, or who have been expelled from it. My father was a clanless Brutor, but my mother was a Vherokior of Clan Sickle Moon. Though my father had no clan, he was nonetheless a proud Brutor, and could claim affiliation to that Tribe.

All Minmatar are part of a Tribe. Discovering the ins and outs of family heritage may be tricky, depending on where you were born -- this is especially true for newly repatriated slaves -- but there are remote few who, when tested genetically, cannot find a willing home in a Tribe.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#10 - 2014-01-06 19:47:27 UTC
If you say so... I am having a hard time to find proper evidence stating one way or the other on the matter... It is really frustrating.

I still have a hard time to believe that when going back in time at the early stage of Pator, when war was still raging between Nefantar and Krusual, and where Starkmanir was the biggest of the tribes, that there were no smaller communities not affiliated to any one of the Seven.

Have they all been annexed or integrated over the years ?
Del Vikus
Sundered Core
#11 - 2014-01-06 20:18:21 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
I still have a hard time to believe that when going back in time at the early stage of Pator, when war was still raging between Nefantar and Krusual, and where Starkmanir was the biggest of the tribes, that there were no smaller communities not affiliated to any one of the Seven.

Have they all been annexed or integrated over the years ?


There have definitely been other Tribes at many stages of our Culture's development. How one claims position within a Tribe is rarely a straight line. Amarrian intervention and a large residency in the Federation has obscured past and present histories, but there are always ways to assert heritage. Let me give you some illustration, through my own experience, and my Tribe's.

I claim status as a Vherokior through my mother: my mother's clan bestows names and heritage matrilineally, so I took her family name (Vikus), and have been welcomed into the Vherokior fold by dint of that name. I might well have been raised Brutor if my father had belonged to a clan, or if he had asserted his right to name me in accordance with his traditions. He deferred, and so I am Vherokior.

The Vherokior is among the more diverse Tribes of the Minmatar, probably the most diverse when it comes to genetic heritage. Despite the relatively placid reputation of my Tribe in the present, it was in the past perhaps the most warlike of the Tribes. The deserts of Matar saw much conflict in the early days after the Gate's collapse, and the origins of the Vherokior came amidst the absorption and incorporation of many smaller communities.

There is of course the belief that the current Vherokior Tribe is an offshoot of the Starkmanir Tribe. Records do dispute this, but it is illustrative of the intermingling and change that did affect all tribes at various points. To be a "Starkmanir" did not mean you were of that blood, in a sense of "purity" -- but, rather, that you were of a people who had been absorbed in the "name" of the Starkmanir, with according affiliation.

Today's Vherokior might well show Starkmanir bloodlines buried deep in their DNA -- but as in my case, so too will they find Brutor blood. But a Vherokior slave on Amarr Prime might have a substantially different makeup than mine. It makes her no less Vherokior than me, but how she arrived there might be utterly alien to my own affiliation.

One's personal affiliation with a Tribe is an absolute -- one doesn't "choose" one's Tribe. But what that Tribe means is mercurial, and has changed over time.
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#12 - 2014-01-06 20:25:52 UTC  |  Edited by: N'maro Makari
Mr Vikus seems to have beaten me to it.

But yes, Tribes are looser groups than you imagine, and are not simply just luck of bloodline. There is more than simple familial ties.

In a short answer to your question, yes, I believe there were unaffiliated Tribes a very long time ago. But the Tribe is as much cultural as it is political. Being X Tribe or Y Tribe does not identify you ideologically, but it will go some way to identifying you culturally. Over time, clans of shared culture banded together and co-operated. In a way similar to what the Republic is, the summary of the group, not what dominates them.

**Vherokior **

Denak Calamari
Incorruptibles
#13 - 2014-01-06 21:16:58 UTC
Oh look, actual news from Gutter Press.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#14 - 2014-01-07 20:03:45 UTC
So, if I understand correctly, every clan or subtribe has to be affiliated to one of the Tribes in the current Republic ? A Republic spanning over hundred of solar systems and worlds ? That there is some law or tradition enforced or followed on every single Minmatar world ?

Is that so absurd to think that some groups here and there have their own culture and tradition, differing widely from every of the Seven, and that want to remain independant and unaffiliated ?
Del Vikus
Sundered Core
#15 - 2014-01-07 20:32:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Del Vikus
Lyn Farel wrote:
So, if I understand correctly, every clan or subtribe has to be affiliated to one of the Tribes in the current Republic ? A Republic spanning over hundred of solar systems and worlds ? That there is some law or tradition enforced or followed on every single Minmatar world ?

Is that so absurd to think that some groups here and there have their own culture and tradition, differing widely from every of the Seven, and that want to remain independant and unaffiliated ?


Certainly, all clans (I don't know what a "subtribe" is) have some kind of nominal affiliation to a Tribe. Those affiliations may be stronger for some than others.

Don't assume that proximity to the Centres of Power have anything to do with a Clan's relationship with a Tribe. One might assume that some Clans have looser bonds with their Tribe when they are further out from Matar. That is far from the case. Even when you don't consider the Thukkers, whose home systems are in nullsec, other Tribes have more or less "pull" depending on the proclivities of their various clans. The Vherokior's official "home" is in Teonusude, which is a barely civilized frontier system bordering the notorious pirate havens of Molden Heath. But the worlds of Molden Heath, despite being quite far from the Centres of Power, remain quite vibrantly Minmatar, and particularly Vherokior. And far from the research towers of Eram's home engineering worlds, Sebiestors ply their trade on the border zone with the Federation -- firmly Sebiestor, but quite different in form than the "core" worlds of the Republic.

The Tribe is what you make of it, wherever that might be. It doesn't matter where the Tribe calls "home". Most Minmatar don't consider the Tribe to be restrictive in the way you are describing. Clans have an extraordinary degree of freedom when it comes to how they express their Tribal heritage.

These new reforms will actually give MORE freedom to Tribal autonomy, which will allow various Clans a greater degree of expression of Tribal Law. The main concern is how that will translate to legislative authority within the Tribal Council itself -- something that, to date, remains relatively obscure.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#16 - 2014-01-08 20:05:12 UTC
I am not necessarily referring to proximity with core Minmatar worlds. It am just saying that Historically as well as sociologically it only makes sense to witness minor and independent entities even - and especially - where a few major groups prevail. This, unless something very particular makes that independent groups can not basically happen, either through coercion, or something else.

Thus why I am a bit puzzled when someone claims that every Minmatar clan is affiliated to one of the Seven...
Arnulf Ogunkoya
Clan Ogunkoya
Electus Matari
#17 - 2014-01-08 23:11:38 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
I am not necessarily referring to proximity with core Minmatar worlds. It am just saying that Historically as well as sociologically it only makes sense to witness minor and independent entities even - and especially - where a few major groups prevail. This, unless something very particular makes that independent groups can not basically happen, either through coercion, or something else.

Thus why I am a bit puzzled when someone claims that every Minmatar clan is affiliated to one of the Seven...


Tribes have split in the past, this is true. However, bear in mind that in the living memory of every Minmatar alive today the entire society has been under threat by the Empire. Either overtly by way of conquest and raiding, or covertly by way of indoctrination.

This sort of thing would not encourage division amongst it's opponents, unless it is on the question of exactly how to oppose it.

Regards, Arnulf Ogunkoya.

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#18 - 2014-01-08 23:47:56 UTC
Arnulf Ogunkoya wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
I am not necessarily referring to proximity with core Minmatar worlds. It am just saying that Historically as well as sociologically it only makes sense to witness minor and independent entities even - and especially - where a few major groups prevail. This, unless something very particular makes that independent groups can not basically happen, either through coercion, or something else.

Thus why I am a bit puzzled when someone claims that every Minmatar clan is affiliated to one of the Seven...


Tribes have split in the past, this is true. However, bear in mind that in the living memory of every Minmatar alive today the entire society has been under threat by the Empire. Either overtly by way of conquest and raiding, or covertly by way of indoctrination.

This sort of thing would not encourage division amongst it's opponents, unless it is on the question of exactly how to oppose it.


One would think that if we wanted to invade, decimate, and conquer the Republic again, we would have simply followed the Elder Fleet's remnants into the Republic and kept going. Instead, the Pax Amarria stands and the now-Empress turned inward to solidify our internal affairs.

I would have thought that series of actions rather contradicted our boogeyman reputation. Perhaps I simply visit the wrong parts of the Republic, though. Or perhaps the travel does it to you. They say the same thing about the Matari people's savagery here, that we all need to unite against their barbaric, bestial attacks. I suppose after you've heard the same propaganda speech given by a few hundred people about not just their imperial rivals, but even rivals within their own empire, you start dismissing it for a load of bollocks.

That was why I thought the tribes were reasserting their power over Shakor and the elected officials. They decided that the one-size fits all Gallentean government model didn't fit and decided to deal with some internal issues. More importantly, they made sure that the tribes could deal with external governments more independently, which bodes better for intercluster peace. For the first time, I think we might have a chance to beat the Gallenteans and Caldari to a peace settlement.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Del Vikus
Sundered Core
#19 - 2014-01-09 00:49:10 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:

That was why I thought the tribes were reasserting their power over Shakor and the elected officials. They decided that the one-size fits all Gallentean government model didn't fit and decided to deal with some internal issues. More importantly, they made sure that the tribes could deal with external governments more independently, which bodes better for intercluster peace. For the first time, I think we might have a chance to beat the Gallenteans and Caldari to a peace settlement.


You muddy the waters and mix poison in the wine. None of this was a power play against Shakor, who is still an independent voice at the Tribal Council, and whose authority has only been recapitulated by this recent reorganization. And it certainly wasn't done in the name of interstellar diplomacy, let alone appeasement of a slaver government. Regardless of a local government's ability to organize itself in the management of its own affairs, it will have no effect on the current policy of the Republic as regards the Empire.
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#20 - 2014-01-09 03:16:04 UTC
Del Vikus wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:

That was why I thought the tribes were reasserting their power over Shakor and the elected officials. They decided that the one-size fits all Gallentean government model didn't fit and decided to deal with some internal issues. More importantly, they made sure that the tribes could deal with external governments more independently, which bodes better for intercluster peace. For the first time, I think we might have a chance to beat the Gallenteans and Caldari to a peace settlement.


You muddy the waters and mix poison in the wine. None of this was a power play against Shakor, who is still an independent voice at the Tribal Council, and whose authority has only been recapitulated by this recent reorganization. And it certainly wasn't done in the name of interstellar diplomacy, let alone appeasement of a slaver government. Regardless of a local government's ability to organize itself in the management of its own affairs, it will have no effect on the current policy of the Republic as regards the Empire.


Perhaps none on the official Republic stance, but that doesn't mean as much anymore. The fact is that it is much easier to deal with people on a personal level, then consistently more difficult as the volume of people you are dealing with rises. Given that, the rise of individual tribal leaders makes diplomacy much easier to handle. If the Empress finds common ground with enough tribal chiefs on the Matari side, hawks of both our peoples will have to accept the new order or go fight each other elsewhere. It's not difficult to imagine.

I'm not sure how this could be anything but a power play against Shakor, though. It certainly wasn't his idea, it certainly reduces his role and gives his authority to others. Call me cynical, but I can't see this as anything but, at the least, an expression that Shakor's government wasn't completely effectual and representative of his peoples' interests. If that were the case, nothing would change. It was a deliberate act that strengthened the position of the chiefs at the expense of Shakor himself. He is now a non-voting advisor to the chiefs rather than leader of the entire Republic en masse. That's not a simple reorganization, nor can it be said to do much but weakening his position and centralized authority.

It may not have been done in the name of peace directly, but I can't see the chiefs all having an individual say in how their tribes interact with foreign entities doing anything but de-escalating tensions. If even one tribe decides to reallocate resources from the full-forward system that is going on now, we move a bit closer to not shooting each other for once.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

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