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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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New Contract Type: Item Rental

Author
Paul Panala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-01-08 16:14:40 UTC
An item rental contract would allow someone to safely lend something to an untrusted pilot for a period of time. The owner could charge ISK for the service and set collateral to protect his asset. Basically a courier contract but the reward paid upfront to the owner (and no shipping package).

The most obvious use for such a contract would be to rent out Freighters and Jump Freighters to those who only need them occasionally. Corps may choose to use them as a check-out system for caps, so their is a paper trail proving it is a corp asset. I am sure other uses could be found as well. Someone will try to make a scam out of it.

With some extra dev work, a rental contract could be used to rent online POS structures to another corp. This isn’t as simple, it would require a few tweaks. Renters granted access through the force field, owners no longer have access to storage or jobs. Owners need a way to terminate the contract early, but no reward would be paid. The contract automatically terminates if the structure is put offline or incapacitated. If the renter enters in a war against the owner, access through the force field is suspended, but the contract is not terminated automatically. If the owner enters in a war against the renter, the contract would be terminated with no reward paid.
Notorious Fellon
#2 - 2014-01-08 16:19:05 UTC
If I were to rent out my JF, I would likely want to put up a collateral to cover the entire cost of a replacement.

So, if someone wanted to rent the ship, they would need enough cash to cover the collateral (plus my fee). So why wouldn't they just buy a JF?

I know if it were me, I would just buy the JF and use it. I could always sell it later on if I needed to.

What am I missing?

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.

Paul Panala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-01-08 16:28:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Paul Panala
Yes, I would expect people to require enough collateral to cover the entire ship, otherwise people would just fail the contract and sell the ship. The value of renting is that they get the collateral back when the contract is complete, simple and done. Buying and Reselling a JF wastes a lot of money in taxes and broker fees. A quick sell means they eat the price difference between buy and sell. A sell order means having to say near the station and play 1 ISK games against day traders. They are also at risk of losing ISK if the market moves against them.

Those are all reason someone might prefer to rent.
TehCloud
Guardians of the Dodixie
#4 - 2014-01-08 16:31:10 UTC
Not like those contracts were in the game before and were removed.

My Condor costs less than that module!

Paul Panala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-01-08 16:42:09 UTC
TehCloud wrote:
Not like those contracts were in the game before and were removed.


That was before my time. Why where they removed?
Sigras
Conglomo
#6 - 2014-01-08 16:56:09 UTC
because nobody ever used them, because the fee people usually charge is greater than the broker fees and taxes youd spend buying the JF and selling it again.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#7 - 2014-01-08 16:57:03 UTC
Almost no one used them and those that did used them for scamming.
Paul Panala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-01-08 16:58:44 UTC
Fair enough... I guess it wasn't a great idea after all.
Foo Chan
Sparks Inc
#9 - 2014-01-08 17:04:05 UTC
This is a great idea for BPOs at any npc station.

After the rental period expires the BPO is returned to its rightful owner

Yes, I can build that.

Paul Panala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-01-08 17:21:54 UTC
Foo Chan wrote:
This is a great idea for BPOs at any npc station.

After the rental period expires the BPO is returned to its rightful owner


Isn't that what BPCs are for? I don't really understand why someone would rent out a BPO when they could sell BPCs.
Foo Chan
Sparks Inc
#11 - 2014-01-08 17:22:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Foo Chan
Paul Panala wrote:
Foo Chan wrote:
This is a great idea for BPOs at any npc station.

After the rental period expires the BPO is returned to its rightful owner


Isn't that what BPCs are for? I don't really understand why someone would rent out a BPO when they could sell BPCs.


A bpo is always ready to use with unlimited runs
A copy takes time to cook and has limited runs

Time = isk
that's why

and more: making copies demands a slot
if the slot is public.. forget it
if the slot belongs to the corp, the bpo has to be in a corp hangar, thats just how the game is built

Yes, I can build that.

Paul Panala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-01-08 17:33:24 UTC
Foo Chan wrote:
Paul Panala wrote:
Foo Chan wrote:
This is a great idea for BPOs at any npc station.

After the rental period expires the BPO is returned to its rightful owner


Isn't that what BPCs are for? I don't really understand why someone would rent out a BPO when they could sell BPCs.


A bpo is always ready to use with unlimited runs
A copy takes time to cook and has limited runs

Time = isk
that's why

and more: making copies demands a slot
if the slot is public.. forget it
if the slot belongs to the corp, the bpo has to be in a corp hangar, thats just how the game is built


I didn't ask why someone would want to get access to a BPO. I asked why would they owner of a BPO want to rent it out? How would you even put a value on a BPO that has a year's worth of refining? Also, we can assume the owner makes money from his BPO. Allowing others full access to it will reduce its earning potential.

Sure, its possible, I just don't see anyone using it for that. If you want to work with blue prints, you really need to put up your own POS. That is just how the game works.
Foo Chan
Sparks Inc
#13 - 2014-01-08 17:37:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Foo Chan
Paul Panala wrote:
Foo Chan wrote:
Paul Panala wrote:
Foo Chan wrote:
This is a great idea for BPOs at any npc station.

After the rental period expires the BPO is returned to its rightful owner


Isn't that what BPCs are for? I don't really understand why someone would rent out a BPO when they could sell BPCs.


A bpo is always ready to use with unlimited runs
A copy takes time to cook and has limited runs

Time = isk
that's why

and more: making copies demands a slot
if the slot is public.. forget it
if the slot belongs to the corp, the bpo has to be in a corp hangar, thats just how the game is built


I didn't ask why someone would want to get access to a BPO. I asked why would they owner of a BPO want to rent it out? How would you even put a value on a BPO that has a year's worth of refining? Also, we can assume the owner makes money from his BPO. Allowing others full access to it will reduce its earning potential.

Sure, its possible, I just don't see anyone using it for that. If you want to work with blue prints, you really need to put up your own POS. That is just how the game works.


I see your point.

It simply adds teamwork to industrial corps by sharing resources better.
Any industrial player will have multiple BPOs for sure but not always what the corp needs.

My concern is about the corp/alliance making use of the industrial potential as a team and not a bunch of solo indies worried about bpo theft all the time.. we are all tired of that

having a pos is a must, yes, but the simple fact that pos usage DEMANDS that bpos are in the corp hangar.. well, you see my point

Yes, I can build that.

Zion en Gravonere
Sparks Inc
#14 - 2014-01-08 18:42:50 UTC
Paul Panala wrote:


I asked why would they owner of a BPO want to rent it out? How would you even put a value on a BPO that has a year's worth of refining? Also, we can assume the owner makes money from his BPO. Allowing others full access to it will reduce its earning potential.



That's like asking a PVPer: "Why would you fly a fleet op when you could spend your time doing whatever you want to .. how would you value the ship you fly vs the importance of the fleet?"
Isn't it?

Combat play in eve has every tool to make team play possible, and then some.
Industrial teams have to use all sorts of workarounds to get good team results.

Throw us a bone here Straight
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#15 - 2014-01-08 22:37:52 UTC
Paul Panala wrote:
Foo Chan wrote:
Paul Panala wrote:
Foo Chan wrote:
This is a great idea for BPOs at any npc station.

After the rental period expires the BPO is returned to its rightful owner


Isn't that what BPCs are for? I don't really understand why someone would rent out a BPO when they could sell BPCs.


A bpo is always ready to use with unlimited runs
A copy takes time to cook and has limited runs

Time = isk
that's why

and more: making copies demands a slot
if the slot is public.. forget it
if the slot belongs to the corp, the bpo has to be in a corp hangar, thats just how the game is built


I didn't ask why someone would want to get access to a BPO. I asked why would they owner of a BPO want to rent it out? How would you even put a value on a BPO that has a year's worth of refining? Also, we can assume the owner makes money from his BPO. Allowing others full access to it will reduce its earning potential.

Sure, its possible, I just don't see anyone using it for that. If you want to work with blue prints, you really need to put up your own POS. That is just how the game works.



Insufficient capitalisation is why you might need to rent out, say, a battleship BPO to a for-profit builder rather than building them yourself.

Running a 7 day production job on a battleship BPO ties up around six to eight billion ISK worth of minerals. If you don't have that amount of ISK liquid at the time (perhaps you have just tied up 25b in a character purchase), why not rent the BPO out? You can produce BPCs to 'sort of' get this effect, but at the cost of spending three times as long and tying up a science slot. (Most blueprints take 3 times as long to produce copies of as they do to build from).



On the freeform contracts - they predate my time in game, but a collateralized lease contract is just a small subset of what those could do.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Paul Panala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-01-10 15:18:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Paul Panala
Those are good points. So an indi player could setup a rental contract to rent out his high end BPO to the corp for use. He doesn't have to worry as much about theft because of the collateral on the contract. Very good point, I didn't think about it from that angle!

On the subject of Indi play, what about my last paragraph in the original post? If they can work out a way to rent out parts of a POS via contract, I think you will see indi become more lucrative than it is now.