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Sermon: Jove, their treachery and their fate

Author
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#21 - 2014-01-06 17:18:24 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
Nauplius wrote:


As the treachery of Vak'Atioth recedes further and further into history, it becomes all the more necessary to rekindle the flames of hatred in our hearts against the Jove. The dead of Vak'Atioth call out from Paradise for revenge; we fail in the eyes of a holy God each passing year we fail to give it to them.


What a poor attempt at revisionist history.

Let's recall that it was an Amarr war fleet that was sent to invade the peaceful Jove with the intent of subjugating and enslaving them, just as you did with my ancestors. The only treachery perpetrated at Vak'Atioth was by the hyper-aggressive, war mongering Amarr. The Jove merely defended themselves against your unprovoked aggression. Be grateful that they merely closed themselves off from the rest of the cluster after your attack rather than counter-attacking. Had they done so with their vastly superior technology it's probable that you and your evil empire wouldn't exist today.


Bella, my dear, for the sake of that which is respectful in inter-capsuleer communications, don't snap at every piece of Nauplius's bait. I think we've given far too much voice to our fringe elements already in our histories, to put it mildly.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#22 - 2014-01-06 18:58:23 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
Nauplius wrote:


As the treachery of Vak'Atioth recedes further and further into history, it becomes all the more necessary to rekindle the flames of hatred in our hearts against the Jove. The dead of Vak'Atioth call out from Paradise for revenge; we fail in the eyes of a holy God each passing year we fail to give it to them.


What a poor attempt at revisionist history.

Let's recall that it was an Amarr war fleet that was sent to invade the peaceful Jove with the intent of subjugating and enslaving them, just as you did with my ancestors. The only treachery perpetrated at Vak'Atioth was by the hyper-aggressive, war mongering Amarr. The Jove merely defended themselves against your unprovoked aggression. Be grateful that they merely closed themselves off from the rest of the cluster after your attack rather than counter-attacking. Had they done so with their vastly superior technology it's probable that you and your evil empire wouldn't exist today.



You seem to have done some revision yourself.

The Amarrian fleet at Vak'Atioth was a miniscule part of the Imperial Navy. I doubt very much that the well-built but few in number Jovian vessels could have overwhelmed Amarrian defences.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#23 - 2014-01-06 19:43:31 UTC
Nauplius wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
What made you choose to become a capsuleer ?


Because the Royal Khanid Navy with whom I was a mid-ranking officer made me one, and I spent the early part of my Empyrean life performing missions for them. Why do you ask?


Because you use Jove tech everyday to fulfill your missions, and SoCT tech to comprehend how to use it...

Also, considering that SoCT formations are extremely sought after everywhere, and no less in the Empire of the Kingdom...
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#24 - 2014-01-06 23:58:50 UTC
Arkady Vachon wrote:
Tamonash en Welle wrote:
If there ever was a God, he was created by the Jove.


that sounds like a potential seed multibillion ISK religious empire in the making, hmmm...

I'd like in on that, High Priestess Claudia sounds awesome.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#25 - 2014-01-07 00:03:32 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
Mister Nauplius, you are a commoner and so do not have the authority to own slaves. Were you a Holder, then you would surely understand that it is a sacred duty to save your charges from their sins so that they might enter Heaven and be embraced by God's Divine Light, and not for your personal lust for blood and vengeance.

He is in 24th, so theoretically he has the power to enslave POWs during times of war.

Anabella Rella wrote:
Let's recall that it was an Amarr war fleet that was sent to invade the peaceful Jove ...

Peaceful, really? What about butchered high priests and Apostle Taj Rukon near Diemnon.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#26 - 2014-01-07 00:55:33 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:

Peaceful, really? What about butchered high priests and Apostle Taj Rukon near Diemnon.


Your choice of words is interesting in the extreme. One usually does butcher animals.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#27 - 2014-01-07 01:03:40 UTC
Nauplius wrote:
Pilot —

As you are a member of the venerable PIE organization, I respect your opinion. However, God is glorified in the destruction of his most vile enemies, of which the Jove are surely the most vile of all. Was Molok the Deceiver enslaved and redeemed? No, he was slaughtered on the altar of God.


Those truly monstrous, like Molok and all who have been struck from the Book of Records, are indeed beyond hope of redemption.

But one lost battle does not make the Jove 'the most vile' of all. We have suffered comparatively greater losses to the Republic than to the Jove, and yet they can still be saved. There are many far worse, like Sansha's Nation, the Sani Sabik heretics, and the Equilibrium of Mankind. Your righteous fury would be better served on them, I feel.

Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
Mister Nauplius, you are a commoner and so do not have the authority to own slaves. Were you a Holder, then you would surely understand that it is a sacred duty to save your charges from their sins so that they might enter Heaven and be embraced by God's Divine Light, and not for your personal lust for blood and vengeance.

He is in 24th, so theoretically he has the power to enslave POWs during times of war.


The power to enslave does not mean the power to own. Slavers and Holders are two entirely separate things. Only Holders are blessed with the wisdom to properly care for slaves. What is enslaved by a Slaver must be turned over to an appropriate Holder's care once the new servant has been indoctrinated appropriately. And in the Empire, such indoctrination is not permitted the methods promoted here, as mandated by the Theology Council.

But mister Nauplius is apparently a citizen of the kingdom, and things are... different, there.
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#28 - 2014-01-07 02:11:08 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:

Those truly monstrous, like Molok and all who have been struck from the Book of Records, are indeed beyond hope of redemption.

But one lost battle does not make the Jove 'the most vile' of all. We have suffered comparatively greater losses to the Republic than to the Jove, and yet they can still be saved. There are many far worse, like Sansha's Nation, the Sani Sabik heretics, and the Equilibrium of Mankind. Your righteous fury would be better served on them, I feel.


I consider the ranking of depravity to go something like:

Jove (most vile) > Gallente > Minmatar Republic.

I haven't given as much consideration to the other factions, but the Jove are surely the worst of all. Apotheosis. Apart from "knowing the true path and failing to follow it," there is scarcely any greater sin.

Erin Savonarola
Doomheim
#29 - 2014-01-07 02:49:28 UTC
Oh dear, you're serious.

Would it be impolite of me to point out that the Khanid were once unrighteous filth before the Amarr found them and showed them the way of the Lord?

What about the names of Khanid Innovation designs: Damnation, Sacrilege, Curse, Heretic, Anathema, Malediction?

There's a saying that people in glass houses should not call the kettle black, or something like that.
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#30 - 2014-01-07 04:34:48 UTC
Erin Savonarola wrote:
There's a saying that people in glass houses should not call the kettle black, or something like that.


Yes. Yes! I believe that's it!
Frencai Ayan
Alexylva Paradox
#31 - 2014-01-07 05:53:13 UTC
Every single time you open your cursed mouth I look fondly upon the time I got to help blow your ship out of the sky. Gods damn it, it's time for you to stop.
Arkady Vachon
The Gold Angels
Sixth Empire
#32 - 2014-01-07 08:30:52 UTC
Well, he does have a price on his head...

Nothing Personal - Just Business...

Chaos Creates Content

Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#33 - 2014-01-07 14:09:37 UTC
Arkady Vachon wrote:
Well, he does have a price on his head...


Bounties placed in contravention of God's will shall be repaid with interest when you stand before God at the Judgement. And the Wicked shall be charged an usurious interest rate, indeed.

A TLF member came within a few bits of structure from collecting your bounty yesterday. Do you not know how much wrath you would heap up for yourself in God's mighty storehouse if you reward the TLF for defeating a Chosen of God? Repent.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#34 - 2014-01-07 20:12:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Samira Kernher wrote:

The power to enslave does not mean the power to own. Slavers and Holders are two entirely separate things. Only Holders are blessed with the wisdom to properly care for slaves. What is enslaved by a Slaver must be turned over to an appropriate Holder's care once the new servant has been indoctrinated appropriately. And in the Empire, such indoctrination is not permitted the methods promoted here, as mandated by the Theology Council.

But mister Nauplius is apparently a citizen of the kingdom, and things are... different, there.


And he is before all a freelance capsuleer. He can therefore do whatever he wishes. As far as I remember the 24th Crusade does not even care if mere pirates enlist inside, the same way they do not care the slightest if one of their members buys unregulated slaves on the SCC market, or other means. This is not a world of baseliners.

If such things are so disgusting to PIE Inc, maybe they should reconsider their policies in the warzone and their loyalty to an organization that does not seem to care so much, as well as pilots that do not seem to care either ?
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#35 - 2014-01-07 22:26:48 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:

If such things are so disgusting to PIE Inc, maybe they should reconsider their policies in the warzone and their loyalty to an organization that does not seem to care so much, as well as pilots that do not seem to care either ?


As a point of clarification: because neither I nor anyone else actually owns Jove slaves yet, I am unable to put into practice what I described in the original post. The Minmatar slaves that are in my possession are treated within the broad mainstream of Amarrian slave practice in which summary execution is a rare event. (Admittedly, mainstream Amarrian slave practice is probably more severe than that of the typical IGS slaveholder; I do not apologize for this.)

Furthermore, so hated are the Jove that when Jove slaves do become available, I expect that Amarrian public opinion will rather demand vicious treatment than be repelled by it.
Erin Savonarola
Doomheim
#36 - 2014-01-07 23:32:36 UTC
Mr. Nauplius, I get the feeling that I am being ignored, which is rude.
Arkady Vachon
The Gold Angels
Sixth Empire
#37 - 2014-01-07 23:45:11 UTC
Nauplius wrote:
Arkady Vachon wrote:
Well, he does have a price on his head...


Bounties placed in contravention of God's will shall be repaid with interest when you stand before God at the Judgement. And the Wicked shall be charged an usurious interest rate, indeed.

A TLF member came within a few bits of structure from collecting your bounty yesterday. Do you not know how much wrath you would heap up for yourself in God's mighty storehouse if you reward the TLF for defeating a Chosen of God? Repent.



If I actually believed in your God then I might be afraid for my immortal soul.

But since I don't...

Nothing Personal - Just Business...

Chaos Creates Content

Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#38 - 2014-01-08 00:52:03 UTC
Erin Savonarola wrote:
Mr. Nauplius, I get the feeling that I am being ignored, which is rude.


My apologies, Contessa.

As alluded to upthread, there are sinners and there are irredeemable sinners. No orthodox Amarrian, I think, denies that the latter category exists, but there is disagreement whether the Jove are in it. I think that they are.

Consider the two sins for which God destroyed the non-Amarr in Book II of the Scriptures:

"Our Lord visited his flock and saw that all was not good.
Blasphemy and heresy ruled the land.
The Lord punished the sinners and drowned them in their own blood.
But the people of Amarr lived righteously and in fear of God.
Thus they were saved and became God's chosen."
— The Scriptures, Book II 2:1


Blasphemy and Heresy. These are the sins of the Jove; apotheosis, becoming a god — that is their goal for themselves, and their goal for us Empyreans. We will follow them down that road to our doom.

So we see that God implemented the death penalty (collectively!) for these sins of Blasphemy and Heresy. Now do we Amarrians have that same right to execute heretics? Yes. I've already given the Molok example, but here's more Scripture:

"So the Lord sent forth the Chosen,
to bring forth the light of faith
And those who embrace his love
Shall be saved by his grace
For we are his shepherds in the darkness
His Angels of Mercy.
But those who turn away from his light,
And reject his true word
Shall be struck down by his wrath
For we are his retribution incarnate
His Angels of Vengeance"
— The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 4:45


We Chosen are "retribution incarnate" and "angels of vengeance". And some day, the Jove will be struck down. Amen. Amarr Victor.

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#39 - 2014-01-08 16:33:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Well, I'll put it this way: If this idiot DOES manage to successfully enslave the Jove, it'll be the best evidence I've seen yet that God really is on the Empire's side.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#40 - 2014-01-08 16:47:32 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Well, I'll put it this way: If this idiot DOES manage to successfully enslave the Jove, it'll be the best evidence I've seen yet that God really is on the Empire's side.


I always thought of our failure to enslave the Jove as a defining moment of God's will in the universe. It should seem obvious, so long after the fact, that we should not strive to exploit the weak by enslaving them, especially when they need our medical help. The Jove are a more unforgiving enemy to themselves than we ever would and are the ultimate lesson in why humans should not be trusted to completely self-regulate their behavior. Left completely to our own devices, we are ultimately self-destructive.

The Jove needed our help with their medical issue and might have been perfectly willing to listen to our ministry had we accomplished the miracle they were looking for. Instead, we took advantage of their weakness by trying to enslave them.

God's punishment indeed. He certainly expects better of his chosen people than opportunism.

In any case, if there are any Jovians left, not only are they probably unfit for labor of any kind, but even pragmatically it would be not worthwhile to collect. Never mind the difficulty in trying to teach them the Word considering their rather harsh repercussions for their hubris. I'd say, if we want to convert the Jovians, we will have to prove God is with us. I can see no better way to do that than to find a cure for their condition.

If we cured them when even their own advanced sciences and medicines failed, how could anyone question our faith again?

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

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