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Dual character training, what about.....

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I am disposable
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2014-01-02 11:50:42 UTC
Prie Mary wrote:
Have to point out, isn't just having the character bazzar making the game pay 2 win. If I wanted I could on day 1 buy enough plex to sell, and purchase a 100+mil sp character....

By your logic that's training at 100milsp per day :O pay 2 win ^^


Yes, and it should not be allowed either. CCP lacks integrity on the matter though.
Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#42 - 2014-01-02 12:06:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Prie Mary
Nethraniel wrote:
I think even on the long run, PLEX for double SP gains would cause a higher usage of PLEX and therefore more money for CCP.

Why this should be P2W I cannot really grasp... because training skills faster is win?

I have only a 5.x M SP main, and I hate to wait for several month to get all the nice and shiny fitting options to be as flexible in play style as I want to be.

Also I do not like to use secondary chars or to multibox my way through EVE... so if I want to change my approach to something in EVE, I have to get new skills and wait again for several month.

Why should it be bad to pay double so I do not have to learn skills for 10 month but only for 5 month?

It is not P2W and it does not bash the economy of EVE, it will on the other hand increase PLEX demand. I mean every single PLEX in EVE is bought by someone using real money, so I guess it will be also nice for CCP...

Old chars do not profit that much from hightened SP gains, new chars get to do more interesting things faster without getting the feeling that it will take ages to get to all the stuff you read everywhere in the forums.

So I second this idea.


Glad someone see's it the same way as I do, was starting to think I had lost my marbles

Dont just [u]think[/u] outside the box, [u]Live[/u] outside of it...
Mag's
Azn Empire
#43 - 2014-01-02 14:20:00 UTC
Prie Mary wrote:
Nethraniel wrote:
I think even on the long run, PLEX for double SP gains would cause a higher usage of PLEX and therefore more money for CCP.

Why this should be P2W I cannot really grasp... because training skills faster is win?

I have only a 5.x M SP main, and I hate to wait for several month to get all the nice and shiny fitting options to be as flexible in play style as I want to be.

Also I do not like to use secondary chars or to multibox my way through EVE... so if I want to change my approach to something in EVE, I have to get new skills and wait again for several month.

Why should it be bad to pay double so I do not have to learn skills for 10 month but only for 5 month?

It is not P2W and it does not bash the economy of EVE, it will on the other hand increase PLEX demand. I mean every single PLEX in EVE is bought by someone using real money, so I guess it will be also nice for CCP...

Old chars do not profit that much from hightened SP gains, new chars get to do more interesting things faster without getting the feeling that it will take ages to get to all the stuff you read everywhere in the forums.

So I second this idea.


Glad someone see's it the same way as I do, was starting to think I had lost my marbles
You have, it just so happens someone lost theirs at the same time. P

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#44 - 2014-01-02 14:40:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Prie Mary wrote:
Mag's wrote:
And this idea is all about Malcanis Law. So it's still going to be no.



I'm sorry, character bazaar is 100% pay to win. The character bazaar is also, lets be honest pretty limited to the people with a lot of in game ISK. The average Joe, joining a new MMO isn't going to sink $2000 on plex to purchase a character to give them a fighting chance.

Eve for a long time has marketed itself on alts, trying to entice people into making more and more alts. I genuinely feel this idea, or something like it is along the right lines to enticing the newer guys to stay.

That new average Joe might not sink $2000 into plex to buy a character, but they might in essence pay double subscription for x2 training speed, so they can get into that frigate, battleship, carrier etc quicker to enjoy the game more. Which over time might turn into that $2000 extra for CCP.

All those support skills are essential, but take time. Time which people don't like.


Lets be honest, the layoffs just before Christmas cant be a good sign.
You are truly delusional.

Firstly, the character bazaar is not P2W, as you can only get as far as someone else has got. Essentially what you are doing is buying someone else's hard work, which they cannot trade multiple times over. You are simply picking up where they left off.

Secondly, yes, Malcanis law. Say for example you need 40m SP to join "ExampleCorp". So your idea gets added, and now it takes half the time to get to 40m SP. Great! Except now is much easier for the average capability of all players to go up. In fact, If you've been playing a while and built up a decent amount of isk, you can permanently increase your training time. So the average capability of all the players in ExampleCorp goes up, as does the requirement for joining.

The SP number for joining corps aren't arbitrarily made up. They are picked to ensure that players have a certain level of capability that will allow them to be an asset to the corp. Most of them are just guidelines anyway. I've seen 30m SP chars rejected and 2m SP chars brought on board. when the limit is 20m.

All this change would do is mean that the current highest SP group would continue to accelerate away from everyone else at the same relative rate, richer new players or alts would accelerate at the same rate too, and the real newer players would be stuck even further behind. All at the cost of a massive plex sink (raising the isk price of plex considerably).

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Nethraniel
IG Metall
#45 - 2014-01-02 15:11:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Nethraniel
Lucas Kell wrote:
Secondly, yes, Malcanis law. Say for example you need 40m SP to join "ExampleCorp". So your idea gets added, and now it takes half the time to get to 40m SP. Great! Except now is much easier for the average capability of all players to go up. In fact, If you've been playing a while and built up a decent amount of isk, you can permanently increase your training time. So the average capability of all the players in ExampleCorp goes up, as does the requirement for joining.

The SP number for joining corps aren't arbitrarily made up. They are picked to ensure that players have a certain level of capability that will allow them to be an asset to the corp. Most of them are just guidelines anyway. I've seen 30m SP chars rejected and 2m SP chars brought on board. when the limit is 20m.

All this change would do is mean that the current highest SP group would continue to accelerate away from everyone else at the same relative rate, richer new players or alts would accelerate at the same rate too, and the real newer players would be stuck even further behind. All at the cost of a massive plex sink (raising the isk price of plex considerably).

Actually this is not fully true, because of the hard cap on skill levels. Sure, older players with lots of ISK and SP can then train all the skills they do not yet have even faster, but they do not gain a lot from it.

On the other hand, newer players can skill up on everything they want faster, so even if they decide to go in a direction they do not want to later on, it is easier to change into a new skill set.

And if a Corp wants to have 20M SP on a recruit, it is, because they want the recruit to have certain skills on a certain level. In addition the new recruit has to prove, that he is capable to use these skills properly. So this is not changed by faster skill gain.

Can please someone point out here, why this should somehow be more of an advantage for older players than for new ones? (which is required to fit Malcani's law)

I really think that the cap on skills at level V will allow new players to profit more from faster SP gain, than older players.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#46 - 2014-01-02 15:37:23 UTC
Nethraniel wrote:
Actually this is not fully true, because of the hard cap on skill levels. Sure, older players with lots of ISK and SP can then train all the skills they do not yet have even faster, but they do not gain a lot from it.

On the other hand, newer players can skill up on everything they want faster, so even if they decide to go in a direction they do not want to later on, it is easier to change into a new skill set.

And if a Corp wants to have 20M SP on a recruit, it is, because they want the recruit to have certain skills on a certain level. In addition the new recruit has to prove, that he is capable to use these skills properly. So this is not changed by faster skill gain.
It's not that easy to "cap" whole collections of skills. There are so many support skills that it becomes quite broad. And corps would just expect more diversity than they already do. If every idiot had 20m SP they'd ask for 30m. If every idiot had 30m, they'd ask for 40m. The whole point of that skill cap is to ensure players are "above average" in terms of SP, so that even if they suck on a personal level they have some benefit to the corp.

Nethraniel wrote:
Can please someone point out here, why this should somehow be more of an advantage for older players than for new ones? (which is required to fit Malcani's law)

I really think that the cap on skills at level V will allow new players to profit more from faster SP gain, than older players.
How many extra plex can a new player afford vs how many an older player can. Sure some newer players would be able to pay with cash, but most would simply miss out, while pretty much every older player could probably afford to by enough plex to increase training time for potentially ever.

Plus an older player could go on to create multiple alts, quickly training them for specific tasks, allowing them to have more support characters that are better at whatever they want them to do. Again newer character wouldn't be able to afford to infinitely train multiple accounts. Basically this whole idea cater to the people with the most isk. How you think that could possible help a newbie char over a vet is beyond me.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#47 - 2014-01-02 16:05:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Prie Mary
Lucas Kell wrote:
Sure some newer players would be able to pay with cash, but most would simply miss out, while pretty much every older player could probably afford to by enough plex to increase training time for potentially ever.



I could be wrong, but im pretty sure a very high percentage, if not all new players - actual new players not alts. Subscribe and pay using their creditcard/real life cash.

I know once I realised how many support skills I had to train, (learning skills - back in the day) I was defiantly turned off and had to think hard.

If someone is already paying $9.99 subscription they are highly likely to bump that up to $19.98 if not indefinatly, but certainly to get the more boring skills done.

Dont just [u]think[/u] outside the box, [u]Live[/u] outside of it...
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#48 - 2014-01-02 16:50:51 UTC
Prie Mary wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Sure some newer players would be able to pay with cash, but most would simply miss out, while pretty much every older player could probably afford to by enough plex to increase training time for potentially ever.



I could be wrong, but im pretty sure a very high percentage, if not all new players - actual new players not alts. Subscribe and pay using their creditcard/real life cash.

I know once I realised how many support skills I had to train, (learning skills - back in the day) I was defiantly turned off and had to think hard.

If someone is already paying $9.99 subscription they are highly likely to bump that up to $19.98 if not indefinatly, but certainly to get the more boring skills done.
Sure, they pay their sub by cash, but that doesn't mean they could or would double the subscription.
And again, how would it benefit them? They would still have the around average amount of skillpoints for a character their age thanks to all the alts, and the bigger players would still be further ahead. The relative gap between them and everyone else would still remain the same.

It would be more beneficial to the newer player to simply double SP training speed that adding in the ability to pay to make it faster (though I wouldn't suggest that either, as I think the game is pretty well paced with the 80/20 rule).

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Toxic Raioin
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2014-01-03 00:04:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Toxic Raioin
Prie Mary wrote:
Ok, so it seems we can activate multi character training for the price of 1 plex per month.

Another nice option, in my opinion atleast, would be plex for multiplied training speed. For example, normal active account trains at 100%, every subsequent plex spent on that account - much like the multi character training- would enable a 100% speed boost to skill training. 2 plexes spent on 1 account, 1 character would result in a 200% training speed.

Now I know there is likely to be a lot of rabble babble by older people against this, but lets not forget there are already +5 implants, those old neural boosts etc still in game which accelerate skill training times.

This accelerated training I feel would not only help new players catch up to the curve, but also address problems with mandatory ships/fits required in 0.0 which do change as, CCP is constantly changing its game, tweeking certain ships/modules.


Its not a bad idea but there would need to be a cap, something like up 15m sp on top of what you started with.

Dont worry every single person who disagrees would do this in a heartbeat on their main and probably alts if ever implemented. We're all adults and we all have jobs so the whole P2W thing goes out the window if there is a cap. plus you can buy plex with isk.
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