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[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

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I am disposable
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1701 - 2014-01-01 04:11:43 UTC
Joker Dronemaster wrote:
I am disposable wrote:
Joker Dronemaster wrote:

Why am I going to pay 1.5 to 2 billion isk for a lateral shift in ship efficiency?


Because you have more money than sense, and prefer the aesthetics of a handheld blender to that of a shoe?


Unfortunately neither of those things are true.............


Well then I guess you will be saving lots of isk. Blink
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1702 - 2014-01-01 11:47:53 UTC
I am disposable wrote:


Pirate faction ships only get one bonus for each racial ship skill.


Okay then, let's just throw 3 ("useful", 5 if you count all of the current Nestor) role bonuses at a hull to make it work, because "Pirate faction ships only get one bonus for each racial ship" and we are stuck in our outdated game design/balancing conventions forever.

Going by that logic it's okay to buff all the other pirate faction ships by adding 3 role bonuses for each ship - the special abilities don't count, because they are only there to have full damage with additional utility slots and everything is fine because conventions were kept in place.

Sounds like another bittervet in my ears, sorry.

.
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1703 - 2014-01-01 12:13:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Miasmos
Possible use for Nestor: WH neutralizer gank squad?

Lowest mass / Neutpower+DPS combo with spider tanking, a squad of 10+ Nestors could be quite interesting as a WH gank team. The midslots allow cap boosters as well. Main benefit: in and out of wormhole with good capital gank ability.

Maybe something like:

4 heavy neut
1-2 RR
1-2 cap transfer

2 heavy cap booster (allows also keeping tank going under cap pressure, for the spider)
propmod
-
-
-

Tank
1-2 DDA II

rigs

With this setup you'd like to have more cargo space for cap boosters so that could be a viable buff: marauder cargo?
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1704 - 2014-01-01 13:22:56 UTC
@ Miasmos:

Sure, we like expensive ships in Wormhole PVP, so why not... Instead of 15 T3s a bhalgorn and an few Guardians, we just juse an overpriced Dominix fleet of 10 Nestors... or not.

.
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#1705 - 2014-01-01 18:01:20 UTC
This ship will be worth over 12 times as much as a Dominix- it should definitely be better and more useful than one.

As I've said before:

- Remove 100% RR range bonus
- Remove 50% RR effectiveness bonus
- Add 150% bonus to armor repair drone effectiveness
- Add 70% reduction to Micro Jump Drive activation time and reactivation delay
- Add Jump Drive capability, 1250m3 fuel bay, 3.5LY range
- Increase Targeting range to 85km
- Increase Scan Resolution to 115mm
- Increase Cargohold capacity to 825m3
- Increase Virus Strength bonus to +15 or +20 (arbitrary bonus, but it fits with the aforementioned theme of SoE)

This isn't overpowered- the MJD will make it more usable in low/null (more capable of escaping gatecamps) and the Jump Drive seems like a necessity for an exploration vessel of this size. Shifting RR to the drones, as opposed to the hull, frees up space and forces the pilot to chose between DPS from drones or logistics. Increasing the virus strength bonus it mainly cosmetic, but it'd make a lot of sense for a exploration BS (which nobody would use for exploration the way it is now) to be the most effective vessel for the job.

NESTOR

Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
4% bonus to armor resistances per level

Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per level

Role Bonuses:
150% bonus to Armor Repair Drone effectiveness
50% bonus to Large Energy Turret range
50% increased strength for scan probes
70% reduction to Micro Jump Drive activation time and reactivation delay
+20 virus strength for relic and data analyzers

Slot layout: 7H, 6M, 6L; 5 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 11250 PWG, 680 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 9950 / 9900
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 / .18 / 56000000 / 13.97
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 85km / 115 / 7
Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 465
Cargo Capacity: 825
Fuel Bay Capacity:1250

I wouldn't increase the powergrid, like some people want to, because the ship isn't designed to be some Tachyon uber ship: it even has dual heavy beams in the preview we have: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=warning&l=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2f1izOFm4&domain=bit.ly

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1706 - 2014-01-01 18:14:36 UTC
Still think this is the most useless ship ever introduced ingame.


Why so hard for CCP to grasp that 6 low slot is not even clsoe to enough for an armor tanker battleshhip?

IT was nto engouh for hyperion.. you changed. It is not enough for tempest.. you ignored.. now another one.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#1707 - 2014-01-01 18:20:38 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Still think this is the most useless ship ever introduced ingame.


Why so hard for CCP to grasp that 6 low slot is not even close to enough for an armor tanker battleshhip?

IT was not enough for hyperion.. you changed. It is not enough for tempest.. you ignored.. now another one.

Well, this ship does have the 4% resistance bonus per level- it'll help somewhat, at least- it doesn't receive any penalty, and it'll raise the resists decently at V.

But it could use either another low slot (making it a big laser domi with one more high), or maybe they could increase the resist bonus to 5% per level, like the abaddon was originally.

That'd get a lot of flack from people though.

I don't know what they'll do, but I'd love if they looked at my suggestion above- what do you think?

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
Bob Niac
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1708 - 2014-01-01 19:05:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Bob Niac
CCP Rise wrote:
Hi

I am very relieved to finally show you the Sisters of EVE Battleship, the Nestor. We weren't able to get it finalized before Rubicon went out, but that's alright because now it makes a nice Christmas present (just kidding it's not until (late)January).

We all agreed that keeping the covert cloak theme was not going to work for the battleship. Instead, we've kept the rest of the exploration feel from the Stratios and Astero by giving the Nestor hacking and probing bonuses, but instead of cloaking it will receive a bonus to remote armor repair amount, drawing on the Sisters of EVE themes of aid and relief. On top of that, the Nestor (as designed currently) has incredibly low mass - around half the mass of a normal Battleship. This should make it very popular in wormholes. The rest of the attribute layout follows the principles from the other Sisters of EVE ships pretty closely, as do the bonuses.

Here's the details:

NESTOR

Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
4% Armor resistances per level

Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
10% drone damage and hitpoints per level

Role bonuses:
50% bonus to remote armor repairer amount
100% bonus to remote armor repairer range
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
50% increased strength for scan probes
+10 virus strength for relic and data analyzers

Slot layout: 7H, 6M, 6L; 5 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 11250 PWG, 680 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 9950 / 9900
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 / .18 / 56000000 / 13.97
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 465
Cargo Capacity: 700



NESTOR

Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
5% bonus to armor resistances per level
5% bonus to energy transfer amount and 15% bonus to range per level

Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
15% drone damage and 10% drone hitpoints per level
-7.5% bonus to remote armor repairer cycle time and 20% to repair range per level

Role bonuses:
50% bonus to range to remote assistance modules and drones. (so: shield, armor, tracking, etc)
50% bonus to drone control range
50% increased strength for scan probes
+10 virus strength for relic and data analyzers

The original numbers are all over the place. Ship is a swiss army knife and seemingly not good at the normal one to three things EVE ships do. Scratch the turrets. Let's do this right. Mini carrier. Static range bonus is dropped in lieu of a split role / per level bonus. Remote rep ROF bonus added in lieu of repair amount bonus. Added drone control range bonus for min/max sentry setups.

Let's look at this constructively.

"Constructive Questions" wrote:

  • What's this ship for?
  • What's it's combat role?
  • Does it's bonuses add meaningful stats to the ship?
  • Are the slot configurations adequate?
  • Does it add value to a fleet if used in one, beit for PVE or PVP?
  • Does the ship work well by itself? Or does it's role demand it needs more than one ship?
  • How many Role bonuses are "too many"?

    • [u]I <3 Logistics:[/u] Pilot of all  T2 logi and my shiny Archon [deceased.] Also a Chimera which may or may not be horrid. I don't make games, I play them. I get that ppl are passionate about change. I post here to plant seeds. You see your idea as is? Holy **** you win! So let's post, and see what the DEVs and our peers use.
    Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
    Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
    Arataka Research Consortium
    #1709 - 2014-01-01 20:39:54 UTC
    Wow, this thread is starting to die...

    "A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
    Savira Terrant
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #1710 - 2014-01-01 21:03:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Savira Terrant
    First of all: Did rise ninja edit the 7th highslot into it or did I actually fail to realise it from the start?!Shocked

    This fat-ass, high-sig ship gives me horrors when trying to justify it as a Logistics platform... even if it were exactly like a Guardian only in a BS hull, it would need like 5 times the EHP (added solely by higher resists) to make it survivable as one. It even has less range, thus sits in the optimal of the hostiles, including the new fancy Armageddon only fleets which suck carriers empty in about 30 seconds.

    Really CCP, you made such lovely ships with the Astero and Stratios. Build upon those and don't try to fit a square peg into a round hole.

    Please make this ship a real versatile support ship for low alpha environments, where the big hull is not a hinderance to it's survivability in such a role.
    I actually started liking the idea of being able to fit warfare links (albeit without any bonuses) as a support role.

    In the end we would optimally be able to decide between maximum damage output by using all turret slots & drones for damage, using all highs and drones for maximum reps, giving up 6 highs and 5 meds (thus damage/rep and projection) for a variety of warfare links or any combination we desire in between. For example doing only around 600 turret damage, while having one webrange link and one target painter strength link fitted and repping my fellow with drones. Other combinations are of course quite possible.

    A ship like that can actually be made by not giving any actual bonuses to the three roles and is an alternative proposal to my previous more specialised one:

    Quote:
    NESTOR

    Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
    4% Armor resistances per level

    Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
    75% MJD reactivation time bonus per level

    Special abilities:

    Can fit Warfare Link modules
    Can jump to Covert Cynosaural Fields
    Cruiser size ship bay

    Slot layout: 6H, 6M, 6L; 6 turrets, 0 launchers
    +rest of stats to be balanced for it, if needed.


    This would have:
    when fitted for max damage - 1001 dps before implants
    when fitted for max remoterep - 6capstable large remote reps + 5 large bots if you so desire
    when fitted for 6 unbonused warfare links: up to 468 drone damage or 5 large repdrones capable to pull off 538 - or more if you spend into resists - omni defense on another Nestor or Stratios by themselves, switchable on the fly.

    This flexibility in support roles (yes, damage is a support role when talking about exploration) would make this ship really unique. And each role can be scaled to need specification in relation to the other two. It is still specialised in that it is only a support plattform for very small groups of players in need of the versatility, since even a few additional players make just combining other, cheaper ships more desirable.

    .
    Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
    Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
    Arataka Research Consortium
    #1711 - 2014-01-01 21:18:23 UTC
    Its role bonuses should be:

    150% bonus to Armor Repair Drone effectiveness
    50% bonus to Large Energy Turret range
    50% increased strength for scan probes
    70% reduction to Micro Jump Drive activation time and reactivation delay
    +20 virus strength for relic and data analyzers

    And give it a jump drive Big smile

    "A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
    sabastyian
    Worthless Carebears
    The Initiative.
    #1712 - 2014-01-02 00:13:56 UTC
    Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
    Its role bonuses should be:

    150% bonus to Armor Repair Drone effectiveness
    50% bonus to Large Energy Turret range
    50% increased strength for scan probes
    70% reduction to Micro Jump Drive activation time and reactivation delay
    +20 virus strength for relic and data analyzers

    And give it a jump drive Big smile

    Yes, lets make it do less damage then a dominix, give it a RR bonus to drones do minimal dps with turrets and get a useless scan bonus......... you truly are a special case.....
    Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
    Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
    Arataka Research Consortium
    #1713 - 2014-01-02 00:30:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
    sabastyian wrote:
    Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
    Its role bonuses should be:

    150% bonus to Armor Repair Drone effectiveness
    50% bonus to Large Energy Turret range
    50% increased strength for scan probes
    70% reduction to Micro Jump Drive activation time and reactivation delay
    +20 virus strength for relic and data analyzers

    And give it a jump drive Big smile

    Yes, lets make it do less damage then a dominix, give it a RR bonus to drones do minimal dps with turrets and get a useless scan bonus......... you truly are a special case.....

    Hey, I can justify all of this- look at it in a better light.

    The dominix's only bonused weapons system is drones- this is supposed to be able to use energy turrets and drones together, or just one or the other (look at the navy domi). Having the RR bonus on Rep drones frees up slots for turrets, and makes a logi nestor be able to fight with turrets while repping allies. The scan bonus and virus strength are staying no matter what, according to rise, so I left them and made one better.

    Don't throw around insults if you can't understand someone's reasoning.

    Also, at least you don't have any deep wisdom about how the MJD bonus is unnecessary Roll

    So I assume you want something more like this?

    50% bonus to Large Energy Turret range
    50% bonus to drone tracking and optimal range
    25% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage

    Can fit Covert Ops Cloak    Lol

    That's too simple and boring- and while DPS could be increased, the ship is SoE- it's new and just a little bit different than the rest- just look at the Astero and Stratios. The Nestor with these stats:

    NESTOR

    Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
    4% bonus to armor resistances per level

    Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
    10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per level

    Role Bonuses:
    150% bonus to Armor Repair Drone effectiveness
    50% bonus to Large Energy Turret range
    50% increased strength for scan probes
    70% reduction to Micro Jump Drive activation time and reactivation delay
    +20 virus strength for relic and data analyzers

    Slot layout: 7H, 6M, 6L; 5 turrets, 0 launchers
    Fittings: 11250 PWG, 680 CPU
    Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 9950 / 9900
    Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9
    Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 / .18 / 56000000 / 13.97
    Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
    Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 85km / 115 / 7
    Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric
    Signature radius: 465
    Cargo Capacity: 825
    Fuel Bay Capacity:1250

    Would make for a much more mobile and useful/versatile ship that could be used in many more situations than just pew pew.

    MJD and Jump Drive for mobility (MJD to be able to escape gatecamps somewhat), Rep Drones for fighting while repping allies if you want to, and +20 virus strength to make it more reasonable (although still a completely daft idea) to use for exploration.

    Or just use combat drones and turrets together to fight (most likely at range) alone.

    I don't just pull these ideas out of my ass- I put thought into these things.

    "A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
    Joker Dronemaster
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #1714 - 2014-01-02 04:07:56 UTC
    This thread is starting to need CPR. i wish a blue would go ahead and post............. something. Actually I take that back, i wish a blue would post something useful.
    HiddenPorpoise
    Jarlhettur's Drop
    United Federation of Conifers
    #1715 - 2014-01-02 06:58:18 UTC
    Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:

    10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per level
    150% bonus to Armor Repair Drone effectiveness
    I do hope you're a troll.
    Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
    Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
    Arataka Research Consortium
    #1716 - 2014-01-02 07:22:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
    HiddenPorpoise wrote:
    Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:

    10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per level
    150% bonus to Armor Repair Drone effectiveness
    I do hope you're a troll.

    What do you mean?

    The Damage/HP bonus is aimed at combat drones, and the armor repair drone amount bonus is aimed at repair drones- all my suggestion allows if for rep drones to be the logistics side of the ship, as opposed to using up the high slots by using RR's without any sort of cap use bonus.

    You don't have to use logistics drones or RR mods- I know I likely won't be- but this was my idea to give the ship more- like the MJD bonus I added in place of the second bonus related to RR.

    "A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
    Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
    Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
    Arataka Research Consortium
    #1717 - 2014-01-02 07:23:28 UTC
    Joker Dronemaster wrote:
    This thread is starting to need CPR. i wish a blue would go ahead and post............. something. Actually I take that back, i wish a blue would post something useful.

    You and me both- none of us know where this is going anymore- I want Rise to say something Sad

    "A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
    I am disposable
    Republic University
    Minmatar Republic
    #1718 - 2014-01-02 07:40:15 UTC
    Joker Dronemaster wrote:
    This thread is starting to need CPR. i wish a blue would go ahead and post............. something. Actually I take that back, i wish a blue would post something useful.


    The story of every feedback thread they start nowadays.
    Savira Terrant
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #1719 - 2014-01-02 10:08:21 UTC
    Uriel, I already know your opinion. Please stop posting your stats over and over again... If you have a new proposal post it once and discuss it, please. No need to post it again and again, especially when someone else had the exact same idea earlier.

    .
    Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
    Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
    Arataka Research Consortium
    #1720 - 2014-01-02 12:06:59 UTC
    Savira Terrant wrote:
    Uriel, I already know your opinion. Please stop posting your stats over and over again... If you have a new proposal post it once and discuss it, please. No need to post it again and again, especially when someone else had the exact same idea earlier.

    Sorry P

    And who else said that? I want to look at it tooCool I guess I'll go back and look for it.

    "A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"