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Drone Assist: Kill It With Fire

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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#21 - 2014-01-01 02:05:43 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
If it really does that much, turn it off for sentries. I've never heard of mobile drone assist being an issue and they stagger shots as they get in range unlike the sentries. I won't like it but I'd prefer it to having no assist.

I think we should just turn it off period.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#22 - 2014-01-01 04:01:55 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
If it really does that much, turn it off for sentries. I've never heard of mobile drone assist being an issue and they stagger shots as they get in range unlike the sentries. I won't like it but I'd prefer it to having no assist.

I think we should just turn it off period.
There are reasons to assist besides alpha and not needing to lock targets. Namely, bouncing drones to decloak people and getting drones into fighting range in a slow ship. You don't seem to have anything bad to say about anything that isn't a sentry. Removing things entirely and large unstepped nerfs are why the missiles you love so much are so weak.
I am disposable
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2014-01-01 04:18:02 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
If it really does that much, turn it off for sentries. I've never heard of mobile drone assist being an issue and they stagger shots as they get in range unlike the sentries. I won't like it but I'd prefer it to having no assist.

I think we should just turn it off period.
There are reasons to assist besides alpha and not needing to lock targets. Namely, bouncing drones to decloak people and getting drones into fighting range in a slow ship. You don't seem to have anything bad to say about anything that isn't a sentry. Removing things entirely and large unstepped nerfs are why the missiles you love so much are so weak.


I think you make a fair point. Sentries really are at the heart of the drone assist issue, so it makes sense to only change them and not every drone in the game.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2014-01-01 04:21:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
I am disposable wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
If it really does that much, turn it off for sentries. I've never heard of mobile drone assist being an issue and they stagger shots as they get in range unlike the sentries. I won't like it but I'd prefer it to having no assist.

I think we should just turn it off period.
There are reasons to assist besides alpha and not needing to lock targets. Namely, bouncing drones to decloak people and getting drones into fighting range in a slow ship. You don't seem to have anything bad to say about anything that isn't a sentry. Removing things entirely and large unstepped nerfs are why the missiles you love so much are so weak.


I think you make a fair point. Sentries really are at the heart of the drone assist issue, so it makes sense to only change them and not every drone in the game.

You could make it so that only drones from Unbonused ships can be assigned.
Basically drone ships and carriers cannot assign drones.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#25 - 2014-01-01 04:32:51 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
There are reasons to assist besides alpha and not needing to lock targets. Namely, bouncing drones to decloak people and getting drones into fighting range in a slow ship. You don't seem to have anything bad to say about anything that isn't a sentry. Removing things entirely and large unstepped nerfs are why the missiles you love so much are so weak.

I'm not entirely sure how you address and separate the issues with sentry drones - especially since CCP has made them a focal point of the SoE ships. A starting point might be asking why non-battleship hulls can even field sentry drones in the first place? Another might as be why fighters and fighter-bombers suck compared to sentry drones? If we're going to talk about non-drone assist elimination changes, this would be my short list:

1. Drone assist is limited to the receiving player's skill, ie: max 5 (same as fighters).
2. Restrict sentry drones to cruiser (or higher) hulls.
3. Buff fighters and fighter-bombers with drone skills.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Motorbit
Moira.
#26 - 2014-01-01 05:07:19 UTC
Quote:
2. Restrict sentry drones to cruiser (or higher) hulls.

you realy think that one sentry a friggate can launch is such a big issue?
5 light drones usually are more efficient anyway.
I am disposable
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2014-01-01 05:08:00 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
There are reasons to assist besides alpha and not needing to lock targets. Namely, bouncing drones to decloak people and getting drones into fighting range in a slow ship. You don't seem to have anything bad to say about anything that isn't a sentry. Removing things entirely and large unstepped nerfs are why the missiles you love so much are so weak.

I'm not entirely sure how you address and separate the issues with sentry drones - especially since CCP has made them a focal point of the SoE ships. A starting point might be asking why non-battleship hulls can even field sentry drones in the first place? Another might as be why fighters and fighter-bombers suck compared to sentry drones? If we're going to talk about non-drone assist elimination changes, this would be my short list:

1. Drone assist is limited to the receiving player's skill, ie: max 5 (same as fighters).
2. Restrict sentry drones to cruiser (or higher) hulls.
3. Buff fighters and fighter-bombers with drone skills.


1. I would be okay with it being an additional 5 on top of the receiving player's own drones.
2. Not sure what that would accomplish seeing as Ishtars are cruisers and Domis are the biggest offender presently.
3. Maybe. Their tracking does seem a bit low. Do they not benefit from all the drone support skills already?
Draconus Lofwyr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2014-01-01 05:41:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Draconus Lofwyr
drone assist is a tool, but on the large scale it is broken. there are many uses for it, but some cross the line of abusive and verge on downright DDoS of server resources.

There are many proposed solutions, but without knowing the underlying legacy code, its difficult to say which will work and which wont.

One i tend to think might be a viable solution is a mechanic CCP already put in place. Drone bandwidth, that code could be potentially reworked to provide an extension on the fleet mechanics, and a role for certain command ship types.

1. use the drone bandwidth for assisting drones. you can not have more drones assisted to you than your bandwidth will allow. (inties can have enough for 5 light drones to keep their roll as decloaking intact, but no hive of drones, just the 5 max)

2. provide command ships a bonus to drone bandwidth based on their race/role (gal/amarr more minie/caldari less) to provide extra drone assist potential (but not more than a full squads worth of drones)

3. only those in squad command positions can accept drone assist from more than one fleet mate ( so inties can still be anywhere in fleet but to be a drone bunny, you must be in a squad command role). (this will provide targets to disrupt drone assist without removing it entirely)


This will provide the role and the dps, without the overpowering alpha command that tends to bring servers to their knees.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-01-01 05:57:35 UTC
Motorbit wrote:
Quote:
2. Restrict sentry drones to cruiser (or higher) hulls.

you realy think that one sentry a friggate can launch is such a big issue?
5 light drones usually are more efficient anyway.

He is referring to assigning sentries to frigates and destroyers. If sentries could only be assigned to cruisers and larger it would help a bit.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#30 - 2014-01-01 06:26:18 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
There are reasons to assist besides alpha and not needing to lock targets. Namely, bouncing drones to decloak people and getting drones into fighting range in a slow ship. You don't seem to have anything bad to say about anything that isn't a sentry. Removing things entirely and large unstepped nerfs are why the missiles you love so much are so weak.

I'm not entirely sure how you address and separate the issues with sentry drones - especially since CCP has made them a focal point of the SoE ships. A starting point might be asking why non-battleship hulls can even field sentry drones in the first place? Another might as be why fighters and fighter-bombers suck compared to sentry drones? If we're going to talk about non-drone assist elimination changes, this would be my short list:

1. Drone assist is limited to the receiving player's skill, ie: max 5 (same as fighters).
2. Restrict sentry drones to cruiser (or higher) hulls.
3. Buff fighters and fighter-bombers with drone skills.

SoE ships aren't sentry focused, infact, their one of the only ships that does better with heavy drones than sentries. What you're seeing is sentries sucking less than the other drone options (and the have the space to use anything they want so they have sentries for PvE and poking).

1 I wouldn't like it but I could deal with it.
2 I don't think you actually know what a sentry is now.
3 You just boosted supers, good job.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-01-01 10:17:28 UTC
Just flag the assistee in the overview and let the other side headshot it.
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#32 - 2014-01-01 11:05:22 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
TL;DR - Kill Drone Assist.

Aside from the fact that drones now completely out-class every other weapon system with superior tracking, range, damage application and alpha - there's the very real issue of node load, instability and crashes. Drone ships are fine - they're specialized. But drone use shouldn't extend beyond the controlling ship. Drone Assist? That's when your buddy runs out of drones and you abandon some of yours to help replenish his supply…

Cry Drone Tear Count: 3


Hahahah what????
Never ever. Drones are absoluetely situational.
Grab a loki booster and a kitey condor and it will eat every well bonused algos or dragoon.
Plus the little trick with changing the speed so that even 3.5k m/s Kessies can´t be tracked by warriors IIs.
Drones are the most broken weapon system out there atm. You have no clue.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2014-01-01 13:24:13 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Motorbit wrote:
Quote:
2. Restrict sentry drones to cruiser (or higher) hulls.

you realy think that one sentry a friggate can launch is such a big issue?
5 light drones usually are more efficient anyway.

He is referring to assigning sentries to frigates and destroyers. If sentries could only be assigned to cruisers and larger it would help a bit.



Not really, don't people still use ultra-tanked T3s for the asistee?

No assist on sentry drones really is the best idea in this thread.
To mare
Advanced Technology
#34 - 2014-01-01 16:00:20 UTC
leave the drone assist but remove from the drones whatever bonus they recive from the mothership
Randy Wray
Warcrows
Sedition.
#35 - 2014-01-01 16:56:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Randy Wray
I think people that don't blob eachother should still be concerned about the way sentry drones work.

Sentry drone nano ishtars dominate small gang pvp today even harder than Attack Battlecruisers did before they were nerfed. This is extremely bad for the gameplay experience in my opinion since they are so hard to kill with other ships and so widespreadly used. The ishtar can provide a heavy dps long range sniping role very similar to attack battlecruisers, while still having a potent shield buffer and speedtank aswell as extremely good anti-frigate(tackle) capabilities.

They're basically everything you could ever ask for a nano DPS ship rolled into one which is completely game breaking in the small gang pvp metagame.

Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @ http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec

twitch.tv/randywray
Tiberu Stundrif
Nifty Idustries
Pandemic Horde
#36 - 2014-01-01 17:40:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberu Stundrif
Limit drone assist to only assign drones to someone in your squad.

Fixed.

Drone assist is only broken when you are using whole wings/fleet to activate their drones using 1 character.
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
#37 - 2014-01-01 20:32:24 UTC
I really don't get the drone assist tears, sentries are cruiser-sized targets doing t1 damage for t2 training time... a cursory glance at the eve-wiki says tracking on them is pretty rubbish too (compared to BS weapons).

Yes they scale particularly well... but that's about all they have going for them. What am I missing here guys?

Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur. 
Randy Wray
Warcrows
Sedition.
#38 - 2014-01-01 20:40:58 UTC
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:
I really don't get the drone assist tears, sentries are cruiser-sized targets doing t1 damage for t2 training time... a cursory glance at the eve-wiki says tracking on them is pretty rubbish too (compared to BS weapons).

Yes they scale particularly well... but that's about all they have going for them. What am I missing here guys?

Have you fought against/with sentries? Do you have any experience of interacting with them whatsoever?

What do you mean with t1 damage for t2 training time? A dominix or ishtar with sentry drones get over 700 dps with awesome range and tracking for battleship weapons. Base tracking is pretty bad but hull bonuses and omnidirectionals compensate for this by far, I've gotten hit by sentry drones flying interceptors at times if I lower my transversal to the 500m/s area.

In large scale combat sentries can be bombed and the assist guy can be primaried and killed, in small scale combat however they're an absolute horror and extremely hard to deal with.

Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @ http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec

twitch.tv/randywray
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#39 - 2014-01-01 22:07:53 UTC
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:
I really don't get the drone assist tears, sentries are cruiser-sized targets doing t1 damage for t2 training time... a cursory glance at the eve-wiki says tracking on them is pretty rubbish too (compared to BS weapons).

Yes they scale particularly well... but that's about all they have going for them. What am I missing here guys?



A full fleet of them all hitting the same target at exactly the same time, with none of the variances you get with any other weapon system.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#40 - 2014-01-01 23:09:55 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
TL;DR - Kill Drone Assist.

Aside from the fact that drones now completely out-class every other weapon system with superior tracking, range, damage application and alpha - there's the very real issue of node load, instability and crashes. Drone ships are fine - they're specialized. But drone use shouldn't extend beyond the controlling ship. Drone Assist? That's when your buddy runs out of drones and you abandon some of yours to help replenish his supply…

Cry Drone Tear Count: 3



so this was the sleeping giant that rose after the tear bucket was filled with tears about missles till they got nerfed into the ground? ya know? ill be against this on principal because if we dotn stand up against the whiners of a viable platform itll just end up in a sad and sorry state...like missles.. and to a further extent FOF and defenders.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]