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Petition to Ban Isobox/Vec, bots and other similar program

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#81 - 2014-01-01 12:12:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Robert Caldera wrote:
this is a bad argument and following this logic we would have ratting, mining and other bots on mass, nothing we really want in game. Why then automated 30 man fleets controlled by 1 dude??
Ehm… botting isn't allowed (nor is it the topic of the thread… maybe… the OP hasn't been entirely clear on this, or on anything really), but we do have ratting, mining, and other multiboxing fleets in the game.

The whole thing about multiboxing that keeps it within the EULA is the fact that it's not automated.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#82 - 2014-01-01 12:15:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Dave Stark wrote:

we're not talking about botting.

bright enough to understand the topic being discussed. unlike you, it would seem.


isboxing = botting.
you play 1 client, the others are automated per input distribution via 3rd party tool which is eula breach ty itself (ccp confirmed this even), this is why I dont understand how no isboxer is banned from the game, despite they're very easy to detect.
Dave Stark
#83 - 2014-01-01 12:16:09 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

we're not talking about botting.

bright enough to understand the topic being discussed. unlike you, it would seem.


isboxing = botting.
you play 1 client, the others are automated per input distribution via 3rd party tool which is eula breach ty itself (ccp confirmed this even), this is why I dont understand how no isboxer is banned from the game, despite they're very easy to detect.


isboxing =/= botting. try again.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#84 - 2014-01-01 12:17:54 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:

isboxing =/= botting. try again.



it is.
Dave Stark
#85 - 2014-01-01 12:19:46 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

isboxing =/= botting. try again.



it is.


erm, it isn't.
Cyber SGB
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#86 - 2014-01-01 12:20:19 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Necromendes wrote:
Affected players:

1) New Players
2) Players without isobox/Vec
3)Players of different time zone unable to mine after DT since ore and ice are empty within hours after DT
4) Full high sec time miners

New players don't really mine ice — the skill requirements to make it work effectively are too high.
Players without isboxer/vec are no more affected than those who do use those programs — an empty belt or anomaly is an empty belt or anomaly, and the supposed problem here is that the belts become empty.
These multibox fleets are full time miners, so the same applies here: an empty belt/anomaly is an empty belt/anomaly.

That only leaves the TZ difference (assuming it's even accurate that every belt in highsec runs out so quickly…). Well, that's pretty much to be expected from something that is intentionally designed to be a limited resource: they're meant to run out every day.

Quote:
These mining bots or whatever they wish to consider themselves who never pay physical cash but plex all their accounts, there are players who pay and are affected.
…and removing these active accounts means other players who pay are affected. It also means CCP earns less money, since PLEXed accounts are a better (if riskier) income source than a standard subscriptions.


I hate to say it, but I have to agree with Tippia on this one.

Let me tell ya man, if I want, I can wipe out a small belt in my retriever easily. I have done it.

I also hate to say it, but move out of highsec. Find where there are belts to mine, and go mine them.

I write Kindle books. Visit my author page. http://amazon.com/author/sgbynum
Dave Stark
#87 - 2014-01-01 12:21:45 UTC
Cyber SGB wrote:
Find where there are belts to mine, and go mine them.

such as, 1 jump out of jita!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#88 - 2014-01-01 12:21:50 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
isboxing = botting.
you play 1 client, the others are automated per input distribution via 3rd party tool which is eula breach ty itself (ccp confirmed this even)

No, CCP has never said that multiboxing breaches the EULA. If you think otherwise, please provide a link.

And no, the mere fact that it requires constant input inherently means it's not automated, and definitely not botting. The whole point of a bot is that it doesn't require that input; the whole point of why multiboxing is allowed is that it does.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#89 - 2014-01-01 12:24:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
I remember countless times when some dork comes up with an afk cloaking whine and asks for auto-disconnect for afk people, others reply it would be easy way to produce a piece of software which would click from times to times for you when you're afk rendering this countermeasure useless - a huge outcry ensues how its an eula breach and how you would get banned in to time, besides of other things which do clicks for you here and there (its how ratting bots work btw); but in the same time it seems to be perfectly fine if said piece of software is doing clicks for you on 30 clients running in background. WTF?

Tippia wrote:

No, CCP has never said that multiboxing breaches the EULA. If you think otherwise, please provide a link.


its not about multiboxing but multiboxing run by some 3rd party software. If a guy is so smart and controls all 30 clients by himself, fine, go ahead and do it I would be the last person asking for any punishment but its not the case for isboxer.
Magna Mortem
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2014-01-01 12:25:40 UTC
Democracy. People are allowed to have opinions without ever having received education about how to properly form one.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#91 - 2014-01-01 12:29:55 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

we're not talking about botting.

bright enough to understand the topic being discussed. unlike you, it would seem.


isboxing = botting.
you play 1 client, the others are automated per input distribution via 3rd party tool which is eula breach ty itself (ccp confirmed this even), this is why I dont understand how no isboxer is banned from the game, despite they're very easy to detect.
ISBoxer duplicates key strokes, it does not automate them. That's the difference.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#92 - 2014-01-01 12:32:21 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Tippia wrote:

No, CCP has never said that multiboxing breaches the EULA. If you think otherwise, please provide a link.

its not about multiboxing but multiboxing run by some 3rd party software.
…which also does not breach the EULA, nor is it automated since it still requires user input to actually do anything.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#93 - 2014-01-01 12:32:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Mag's wrote:
ISBoxer duplicates key strokes, it does not automate them. That's the difference.

what is automation? Performing some action without any user interaction, right?
isboxer is producing input for 1 single client, all others receive input with no user interaction they are driven by a tool simulating human player.
-> botting
Necromendes
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#94 - 2014-01-01 12:32:32 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
I remember countless times when some dork comes up with an afk cloaking whine and asks for auto-disconnect for afk people, others reply it would be easy way to produce a piece of software which would click from times to times for you when you're afk rendering this countermeasure useless - a huge outcry ensues how its an eula breach and how you would get banned in to time, besides of other things which do clicks for you here and there (its how ratting bots work btw); but in the same time it seems to be perfectly fine if said piece of software is doing clicks for you on 30 clients running in background. WTF?

Tippia wrote:

No, CCP has never said that multiboxing breaches the EULA. If you think otherwise, please provide a link.


its not about multiboxing but multiboxing run by some 3rd party software. If a guy is so smart and controls all 30 clients by himself, fine, go ahead and do it I would be the last person asking for any punishment but its not the case for isboxer.




Can't agree better :)
Dave Stark
#95 - 2014-01-01 12:35:08 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Mag's wrote:
ISBoxer duplicates key strokes, it does not automate them. That's the difference.

what is automation? Performing some action without any user interaction, right?
isboxer is producing input for 1 single client, all others receive input with no user interaction they are driven by a tool simulating human player.
-> botting

the subject has been done to death and every time some one like you makes an incorrect statement, you get corrected. you're wrong; it's a documented fact.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#96 - 2014-01-01 12:35:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Robert Caldera wrote:
what is automation? Performing some action without any user interaction, right?
isboxer is producing input for 1 single client, all others receive input
…from that user interaction, which means it's not automated. Without the user interaction, nothing would ever happen on any of the machines. Duplication of user input inherently means it doesn't automate any user input because if it did, there would be no need for the duplication.

Thus: not even remotely automated, nor botting in any sense of the word.
Cyber SGB
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#97 - 2014-01-01 12:36:58 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Cyber SGB wrote:
Find where there are belts to mine, and go mine them.

such as, 1 jump out of jita!


Yep, that's true, but I'm not telling where my belt is located. Big smile

I write Kindle books. Visit my author page. http://amazon.com/author/sgbynum
RAIN Arthie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2014-01-01 12:39:38 UTC
Your implying that CCP practices ethical and moral business practice. I do agree with you, however they allow players to violate RL laws and do not care (plex for good where people were getting war deced until they payed a plex to help that country). Then again it is hard to scan down botters and fix it. I'm sure they are already working on things. Problem is people will find another way, they always do.
Dave Stark
#99 - 2014-01-01 12:39:58 UTC
wait, so if i set isboxer up tomorrow morning, my mining fleet will have cleared out all of the systems adjacent to jita by the time i get home from work?
and it's legal?
Necromendes
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#100 - 2014-01-01 12:40:23 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
what is automation? Performing some action without any user interaction, right?
isboxer is producing input for 1 single client, all others receive input
…from that user interaction, which means it's not automated. Without the user interaction, nothing would ever happen on any of the machines. Duplication of user input inherently means it doesn't automate any user input because if it did, there would be no need for the duplication.

Thus: not even remotely automated, nor botting in any sense of the word.


The cheater just need to purchase 1 bot program like Vec to control the main while all other under Isoboxer follows the actions of the main bot program. Before Isoboxer, if they need bot they would hv to purhcase multiple bots program, with Isoboxer, they only need 1.