Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Think about this though. This means that CCP is trying to cap the rewards in nullsec. We are effectively at peak rewards. If we can't get rewards increased, then why should risk be increased any further, by doing things like making it harder to gather intel?

We already have members who take the safe path by running missions with highsec alts. And people who will take the bigger rewards doing Incursions, Faction Warfare, and wormholes. If CCP does anything more to increase risk in nullsec, it will drive more people who can do a risk/reward calculus to safer highsec or better paying PvE outside of nullsec.

In an alliance as large as yours, why wouldn't you run incursions? Solo high sec mission running income is sorta ok for solo income, but in a group you can make mountains of ISK with other activities.

It seems like the argument "bring friends" is only used when pvping, yet pveing its just sorta a given people do it solo I guess? Unless I'm missing that everyone is doing these null sec anoms with groups of people.

I don't get why you couldn't just bring friends, make less then soloing, but overall much more than in high sec considering you can do things faster in more safety, and there by mitigate risk that way. I mean 5 people find a empty system to farm, who's gonna mess with them when you have people that run when there is a cloaked AFK user in the system? High sec is a viable solo option more then null sec, doesn't mean null sec should be buffed or high sec nerfed to make high sec worthless either.

Am I missing something?

Well, if they really wanted nullsec to be a playground of the well skilled, why try to make carrier ratting more difficult? That is a high skill ship to be flying. It also has a high cost of ownership, both up front for the hull and reoccurring because it requires fuel to move. Plenty of people enjoy a challenge, but at the end of the day we all need isk to do stuff in Eve's player driven economy, and there are many isk making activities that can be rated better than nullsec by reward or risk.

I don't think the "wild" narrative of nullsec was ever a really good one. It always had gates and stations, and ways to add more amenities. I think CCP did a good job with wormholes for creating a wilderness area that can never really me tamed or civilized. Nullsec as a birthplace and home to player made empires makes far more sense, both for securing resources and just planting flags.

I'm not a big fan of rental systems because of the issues from absentee landlords and that the profits tend to concentrate into the hands of a few. I like things that average line members can do to make enough isk to fund there nullsec PvP activities.

Something that renting also implies is that nullsec space is worth paying a fee for, but not worth fighting for. And that puts it in an awkward position because CCP obviously set it up to be fought over and conquered. There are already several regions of nullsec that are known to be near worthless, and are either just used for renting or allowed to be fought over by smaller alliances and used as hunting grounds for big alliances.

None of this leads to a lot of good game play. Renters don't have a reputation for defending anything. The super rich landlords are off playing in supercaps or practicing for Alliance Tournaments, and don't bother contesting with roaming gangs. Huge areas of nullsec are held just for the sake of holding, and even when they are rented they are empty most of the time.

If nullsec is to be made any harder to live in, a lot of things need to be changed. Because as it is, it is largely populated by people who do sov war and make isk elsewhere, and renters who only stay so long as it is easy and cheap but come and go with no real care for nullsec in general.

Uhhh you kinda did. You aren't talking about targeting carriers, you are talking about all of null PVE, and it's about an ancient piece of text from a meeting that's already resovled.

It's been fixed in multiple ways since may 2012 bud. Find something recent where CCP are saying there's a problem with faucets in null. You can't just point at old minutes from meetings multiple expansions ago and expect us to go along with that being the case. The stats I gave were API pulled by dotlan. Clearly considerably more bounties will be given out in high sec than null, and it costs nothing to live in high sec, there's no sink you are force to take with the faucet.

And my point is they fixed it. You are using outdated communications to prove your point. That's like saying titans are too powerful against subcaps cos in some minutes years ago CCP said so.
Yes, they pointed out the issue, but then they fixed it, in multiple different ways. It's not an example of why now, local should be nuked to make null PVE harder. You can't honestly believe it is, you are simply grasping at straws.

Oh and when they added the warp jamming rats, they removed others, bringing the rewards down. They've also done the warp speed and ceptor changes recently, making carrier ratting nearly a suicidal task. And the drone poo changes made no difference except removing a huge amount of hauling, pushing reliance onto manufactured compression and making low end mining more of a requirement. It's pretty much that last part that made them add all the lowend minerals to ABCs, to balance out manufacture.

Agreed that balancing things out is key with this approach. Too much of a boost and prices drop so that there is either no gain or even worse, the market price crashes.

Or one that can't be ganked. I know you'll resort to the "they'll just bring more numbers" as if more numbers is simple for the PvP people, but apparently impossible for the PvE people.

Group ratting has been discussed before in the old thread. If you are doing it you may as well do solo level 4's, since the payout drops so drastically there is simply no point.
Null has no issue with risk/rewards. It's works well as it is, and it's not supposed to be the best income in the game. WHs provide more challenge and higher income solo. Incursions are good group based income. Null is as it should be, steady mid level income with risk scaling with the depth of your sov and intel channels. It only has risk/reward issues if they dump in ideas like nuking local to make ganking easy.

What sites and anoms? I can run an entire regions exploration sites in a single evening, solo. Sure, they can respawn and that, but chances are if you chucked 100 people into a region doing them, they would get less isk/person than solo ratters by a considerable margin.

Combat anoms and escalations are few and far between, and require great luck to be a decent payout, which then needs to be shipped, sold and distributed across the group, which can be a mega pain to manage.

On paper, it's simple to say "just get your group to go do X", but in reality it's very difficult to manage everything as effectively. It's why incursion groups are so elitist, because they need to be sure everything is running properly to maintain efficiency.

As this thread has become more and more a 'how can I insult other posters better/more' pamphlet going round in circles, rather then a discussion on the topic at hand, it gets a lock.
Mind you, a large part of the reason is that cleaning the thread of all rule breaking posts would cut the thread in half. At least. Next time, please keep it a little bit more civil.

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That said, I wish you all a good and happy 2014!