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Missile skills, devourer of SPs?
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RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#41 - 2013-12-28 02:31:05 UTC
@ Marcus

I have to profoundly disagree with your opinion of Target Painter.
It is not a *required* fitting on any ship. It is a utility module, that increases the bloom of other ships.
I love a TP, but I actually think the best use for them, is on Snipe ships, which are generally Gun ships.
They work great for Torp application, but that's because almost everything moves faster than a torpedo...
They also work great in fleets, where every pilot gets the benefit from a single TP
To say they are required is biased, to prove your argument somewhat.

I have flown many, many missile/torp fits. Ships that have a standard and accepted fit unilaterally.
Drake
CNR
Tengu
T1 Raven
Typhoon

Torp Phoon is a good use of TP
Tengu is a decent use, in high end plex's, where killing frigates fast is mandatory.
Drake: Though it is the most famous missile slinger ever, I have never seen a TP fit for a Drake.


As for your original point.
I mean.. you have all these skills, and each level gives a noticeable benefit. You can call it 'devoured' if you want, but each benefit is real and regardless of SP, there is a benefit received.
You train it to V because you WANT to.




Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
#42 - 2013-12-28 16:20:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcus Walkuris
RavenPaine wrote:
@ Marcus

I have to profoundly disagree with your opinion of Target Painter.
It is not a *required* fitting on any ship. It is a utility module, that increases the bloom of other ships.
I love a TP, but I actually think the best use for them, is on Snipe ships, which are generally Gun ships.
They work great for Torp application, but that's because almost everything moves faster than a torpedo...
They also work great in fleets, where every pilot gets the benefit from a single TP
To say they are required is biased, to prove your argument somewhat.

I have flown many, many missile/torp fits. Ships that have a standard and accepted fit unilaterally.
Drake
CNR
Tengu
T1 Raven
Typhoon

Torp Phoon is a good use of TP
Tengu is a decent use, in high end plex's, where killing frigates fast is mandatory.
Drake: Though it is the most famous missile slinger ever, I have never seen a TP fit for a Drake.


As for your original point.
I mean.. you have all these skills, and each level gives a noticeable benefit. You can call it 'devoured' if you want, but each benefit is real and regardless of SP, there is a benefit received.
You train it to V because you WANT to.


In the sense you put it you would be right, and again I find that to be a perspective that comes from someone who already has gunnery to fall back on. I know that PvP is the golden rule for comparison of a weapon-system.
But when you don't compare missiles and train it like many people imply is so OP which I have held up as my example earlier.
The 'Large size launcher rush' that would be so unfair and easy, which I have shown to be longer without taking target painting into the equation before the gunnery tiericide changes. Solely on having such high SP costing 'tracking support skills'.
When you start in the missile skill tree like THAT, you are gunning for PvE dominance. And in that sense you will need target painting. Why does this matter even if you opt to go into low sec or null. Because you still need to make ISK even if PvE is not the focal point of a weapon-balance discussion. Which is entirely the point, I don't mean to focus on gunnery vs missiles here outside of the SP per value returns, which applies to both PvE and PvP. And missiles have imho a visible split in PvE and PvP requirements from an autonomous stand point. I've lived in low sec and when you need to make some iskies you can't be 'dependent' on others.
As you said 'in gang you can have someone paint for you', and I agree. But you still lack the autonomy you would get from gunnery having tracking computers etc. without going ballz to the wall into E-war for such a simple thing as tracking modules which need to be created already...
So yes, If you didn't start as a missile pilot and don't look at missiles from the point of an autonomous system, then fitting whatever in PvP is perfectly plausible through the distribution of group/fleet roles. Actually just about anything is possible that way. So it is indeed not 'required' as you said. Unless per the model that I have maintained, that of someone starting in missiles and making their way through EvE that way, encountering a mountain of SP compared to gunnery.

To Ilshira, I just got my post deleted. But rainbow damage does more damage then one type of damage. So the selectable damage thing is mostly a PvE gripe, or everyone would be pissed off with projectiles with their EM and explosive damage+rainbow.EM and explosive being the most common resist holes. Having a single damage type 'only' makes faction missile ships easy to counter in your hypothetical scenario. Note that the trade offs for weapon damage types comes from a stereotypical 'other' bonus. Like Amarr with resists bonuses. Gallente have drones and a minor capacity to shield/armor tank. etc.
Regarding the 1/3rd split for missile skills to be at an equivalent SP/value ratio. Tbh, I would be pleased enough if missiles had a 18x like gunnery or 16x like projectiles. But 21x, x3 multiplier more then gunnery is just backward for support for 1 weapon-type. Pairing that with the double launcher skills turned into 1 skill per 'small/medium/large launcher' size group +2 specialties I would be ecstatic, despite not achieving SP equivalency.
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