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Skill Discussions

 
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Skill training and missions

Author
Uzz'nusoi
Meakhai Industrial
Meakhai Conglomerate
#1 - 2011-11-08 21:11:58 UTC
Hi,

Would it not be nice to add skill points to missions, So when you do a level 4 mission you would save like 30 min of training time. This would reward people that play more without offsetting the balance a lot as it would not accumulate to much but you would feel the difference. Or might have skill point only missions (No bounty, No faction, No isk)

Regards,
Uzz
Dominique Vasilkovsky
#2 - 2011-11-08 21:18:19 UTC
No, that is a terrible idea.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#3 - 2011-11-08 21:44:17 UTC
Uzz'nusoi wrote:
Hi,

Would it not be nice to add skill points to missions, So when you do a level 4 mission you would save like 30 min of training time. This would reward people that play more without offsetting the balance a lot as it would not accumulate to much but you would feel the difference. Or might have skill point only missions (No bounty, No faction, No isk)

Regards,
Uzz


Variations on this idea come up frequently. You've already gotten a fairly representative response, so I'll try to be a touch more constructive (while still rejecting the idea).

Linking skill gains to gameplay is a bad idea in EVE. The usual suggestion of use-based skill gain is prima facie awful for being exploitable. So at least you dodged that one. But here's the issue with your idea: it dramatically benefits older players while only marginally helping newer players. Any mission you can complete with 1mil SP is going to be faster and easier at 5mil SP and laughable at 25mil. Even if these missions were restricted to new players (or if there were diminishing returns for older players) they would be farmed to hell and back to rush training on new alts -- which doesn't help matters either.

So no. It's a bad idea in context of how the game actually works.
Lairne Tekitsu
Candy Cabal
Surrounded by Wormholes
#4 - 2011-11-09 03:47:49 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Uzz'nusoi wrote:
Hi,

Would it not be nice to add skill points to missions, So when you do a level 4 mission you would save like 30 min of training time. This would reward people that play more without offsetting the balance a lot as it would not accumulate to much but you would feel the difference. Or might have skill point only missions (No bounty, No faction, No isk)

Regards,
Uzz


Variations on this idea come up frequently. You've already gotten a fairly representative response, so I'll try to be a touch more constructive (while still rejecting the idea).

Linking skill gains to gameplay is a bad idea in EVE. The usual suggestion of use-based skill gain is prima facie awful for being exploitable. So at least you dodged that one. But here's the issue with your idea: it dramatically benefits older players while only marginally helping newer players. Any mission you can complete with 1mil SP is going to be faster and easier at 5mil SP and laughable at 25mil. Even if these missions were restricted to new players (or if there were diminishing returns for older players) they would be farmed to hell and back to rush training on new alts -- which doesn't help matters either.

So no. It's a bad idea in context of how the game actually works.


You could have diminishing returns when you run a lot of missions, that recharge once a month or so.
Shawn Pierce
Solace Inc
#5 - 2011-11-09 04:32:30 UTC
Lairne Tekitsu wrote:
You could have diminishing returns when you run a lot of missions, that recharge once a month or so.

It would still benefit the older characters far more than the new characters. There is no way to avoid this in any kind of "play gives skill points" scenario. The current passive training really is the best and most fair system out there.
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#6 - 2011-11-11 19:49:35 UTC
Also, why only missions and not exploration. Or Wormholing? Or even gatecamping since CCP wants the players to go into Low Sec?
You see, things aren´t this simple. The current system is fine, if you want more skillpoints on your character, you can always buy one.

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Goodgodyourface
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2011-11-11 20:02:39 UTC
Uzz'nusoi wrote:
Hi,

Would it not be nice to add skill points to missions, So when you do a level 4 mission you would save like 30 min of training time. This would reward people that play more without offsetting the balance a lot as it would not accumulate to much but you would feel the difference. Or might have skill point only missions (No bounty, No faction, No isk)

Regards,
Uzz


Level 4 Mission=SP?

Oh god, how did you even begin think this was a good idea? People already hate L4s enough given their easy ISK (trumped, lately, by VG blitzes); but this would probably drive EVE's entire null/lowsec playerbase to the point of unsubbing, which would make CCP quite upset.

Even if it were a very high risk venture as such an amazing bonus should warrant (I'm thinking Level 10s in nullsec, make it so that you actually have to make an effort to reach it), it still elicits issues with grinding, and such is not the game EVE is meant to be.
Dane El
Apocalypse Lancers
Hole Tanking
#8 - 2011-11-12 17:43:50 UTC
Since I don't mission can I get skill points for every X market transactions?

Eve's time based training system is fantastic but has it drawbacks, namely that you cannot get ahead by grinding longer. But fear not, Eve rewards grinding in other ways. You can accumulate vast amounts of isk from grinding missions which can be used to buy the expensive implants that will increase your training speed. The bonus here is that once purchased the bonus is permanent until you get podded.

But if you want a game that will let you win because you have more time to play, see virtually any other MMO on the market.
Katy Ling
Crimnson Concept Flame
#9 - 2011-11-15 02:47:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Katy Ling
Uzz'nusoi wrote:
Hi,

Would it not be nice to add skill points to missions, So when you do a level 4 mission you would save like 30 min of training time. This would reward people that play more without offsetting the balance a lot as it would not accumulate to much but you would feel the difference. Or might have skill point only missions (No bounty, No faction, No isk)

Regards,
Uzz


at first view, i wouldn't think so. the risk to abuse is high ... but ther's mechanics in game to prevent abuse certain things, like you can't decline 2 missions in less than 4 hours, without loosing standings.

a possibility could be you having a story line mission per day, that would award you a small amount of SP, no mater how the level of agent (1 or 5)

maybe 1000-5000 SP ?


this is a very touchy subject, as it's not far that players that have trained eve skills for a long time, suddenly get overrun in sp, by new pilots because they farmed some easy new sp mechanism.
However, the topic of wishing a way to get some sort of extra SP reward for actually playing the game has been present in pilots minds for a long time. a chance for pilots to get an extra benefit for playing more than others or caring more about the game, or a small help on those extra skills.
but i wonder if having pilots sitting in station with +5's, not even playing the game, is really fair or fun, when new players make a visible effort to contribute to the social presence and interaction in game, and still can't beneficent of that extra effort, would be fair.

i believe that having a small incentive to log on and do a certain special mission, getting extra 1000-5000 SP(for example) and you could only have access to another similar mission in next 20-23h to prevent abuse, would be rewarding to new and old players, without being overpowered.

pros :
1 - would give some meaning to log on and do something constructive in game
2 - new players could get some nice sp that would help them with important core skills, to experience something nice.
3 - Old Players would have a help on training those extra long skills that take forever.
4 - give a chance to train other skills in you're account alts, and solve a request of players wishing to be able to train several pilots in same account
5 - pilots in same account. - they could train it, if they worked extra for it.
6 - reward feeling to players
7 - something new and interesting to do in the game.
8 - Surely would make lots of players happy, without being overpowered.

you can make around 2000++/3000 SP per hour. having access to a special story line mission that would give you 1000 - 5000 SP to aply to some skill would't be overpowered in skills that have (at LVL 5) :
250.000 sp at x1 ; 512.000 at x2 ; 1.280.000 x5 ;

cons :
fear of innovation.

a small amount of sp boost doesn't change the balance betwin vets and noobis and would be pleasant for everyone that would like to work for it.
I likegirls
Origin.
Black Legion...
#10 - 2011-11-15 06:10:30 UTC
I want more skill points so that I can finish training for T2 heavy missiles! I want my Drake to evolve into a T2 Fit Drake.
Thur Barbek
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2011-11-15 07:07:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Thur Barbek
Katy Ling wrote:

pros :
1 - would give some meaning to log on and do something constructive in game
2 - new players could get some nice sp that would help them with important core skills, to experience something nice.
3 - Old Players would have a help on training those extra long skills that take forever.
4 - give a chance to train other skills in you're account alts, and solve a request of players wishing to be able to train several pilots in same account
5 - pilots in same account. - they could train it, if they worked extra for it.
6 - reward feeling to players
7 - something new and interesting to do in the game.
8 - Surely would make lots of players happy, without being overpowered.


1. if you think SP is the reason people log on... your doing it wrong.
2. the list of things you can do with under 1m sp is very long. frigates are very underrated.
3. Roll
4. This has nothing to do with sp for gameplay.
5. see #4
6. like isk and lp do now? why add a third.
7. You mean doing the exact same L4 missions... the only difference is there is a new virtual currency for a reward, gameplay is exactly the same.
8. Surely would make lots of players unhappy, while being overpowered. Opinions are not good arguments.

Also this hurts lowsec, nullsec, and WH players... there are no missions in Sov space.
Katy Ling
Crimnson Concept Flame
#12 - 2011-11-15 22:17:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Katy Ling
Thur Barbek wrote:
[quote=Katy Ling]

Also this hurts lowsec, nullsec, and WH players... there are no missions in Sov space.


people choose where to go and what to do, in eve.

there's no books in there too, and people make arrangements .... but it is true, it would make it hard to manage ...
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#13 - 2011-11-16 00:14:13 UTC
Katy Ling wrote:
people choose where to go and what to do, in eve.


Yes, and the great equalizer is that they all train the same skills the same way. This would bias the whole thing towards people who choose to run missions.

And that was the point about killing null. If missions keep becoming more and more appealing contra exploration or anomalies, more people will just move up to high sec and grind missions.
Azro Zora
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2011-11-16 12:18:48 UTC
only 1 argument is needed to smash your idea:

reduction in training time encourages players to run missions even when they dont to that right now = running missions generates isk in eve = isk value deflation

missions reducing skill time = deflation
Outz Xacto
Echelon Munitions
#15 - 2011-11-22 23:06:45 UTC
I actually like that I don’t feel obligated to log onto EVE every single day because if I don’t, somehow I've fallen behind. I like that I decide that I wont play for a couple weeks and not feel like my skill plan is now inferior to others because of my choice to do something other than play EVE.

Granted it is just my opinion of the existing game mechanic but it's something that as a new player and more "casual" player I feel I get to enjoy EVE the same as someone who plays every day.

Thats just how I look at it though...