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kiting LML's VS Rails
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Cheeswrinkle Ongrard
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-12-18 21:09:00 UTC
Can someone please explain to me why one is better than the other? I am unable to hit ships using rails with spike s orbating at 20km and at 3000m/s. So clearly my tracking isnt able to keep up with my speed.

At the same 20km and 3000m/s speed in my condor with LML's im still unable to hit the target. I end up just hitting keep at range with both ships.

Is there a way to fix this? Maybe a skill i have yet to train up? And as the subject says LML's vs Rails which is better and why.



Thank you
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-12-18 21:12:14 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Different weapons, different uses.

Relevant here, however, is the fact that missiles give absolutely zero ***** about how fast you (the person launching the missiles) are traveling. Unlike guns, missiles only care about how fast your target is going. If you're "missing" with missiles it's almost always because you're out of range - not because you're going too fast (at least, not directly - orbiting at a very high velocity will obviously push you into wider orbit than the stated radius, potentially putting you out of range).

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Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#3 - 2013-12-18 21:15:38 UTC
i recommend to join some corp/alliance which can teach basics, makes it much easier.
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
United Caldari Space Command.
#4 - 2013-12-18 23:31:00 UTC
Cheeswrinkle Ongrard wrote:
Can someone please explain to me why one is better than the other? I am unable to hit ships using rails with spike s orbating at 20km and at 3000m/s. So clearly my tracking isnt able to keep up with my speed.

At the same 20km and 3000m/s speed in my condor with LML's im still unable to hit the target. I end up just hitting keep at range with both ships.

Is there a way to fix this? Maybe a skill i have yet to train up? And as the subject says LML's vs Rails which is better and why.



Thank you


You need to give more information as to what your fit was and the ship you were fighting. Generally speaking, you should be hitting your target at 20km. The only thing I can think of is that the target could be boosted. I've seen inties with OGB evade LML damage.

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Theroine
Pew Pew Pirates
#5 - 2013-12-19 01:10:30 UTC
Cheeswrinkle Ongrard wrote:
Can someone please explain to me why one is better than the other? I am unable to hit ships using rails with spike s orbating at 20km and at 3000m/s. So clearly my tracking isnt able to keep up with my speed.

At the same 20km and 3000m/s speed in my condor with LML's im still unable to hit the target. I end up just hitting keep at range with both ships.

Is there a way to fix this? Maybe a skill i have yet to train up? And as the subject says LML's vs Rails which is better and why.
Thank you

On a Condor with all skills at V and no rigs or implants, Max velocity of faction light missiles is 5625 with a flight time of 7.5s for a maximum distance of 42187.5m. If you are keeping range from your target at 20k at 3000m/s, and the target is also able to go this speed, assuming you are basically chasing them, they would be 42500m away from launch point at the end of 7.5 seconds. Of course, this all assumes I know what I'm talking about math wise. Pirate

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Baron' Soontir Fel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-12-19 05:27:01 UTC
missiles also take time to accelerate to their max speed so they lose distance there.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#7 - 2013-12-19 12:51:42 UTC
Theroine wrote:
On a Condor with all skills at V and no rigs or implants, Max velocity of faction light missiles is 5625 with a flight time of 7.5s for a maximum distance of 42187.5m. If you are keeping range from your target at 20k at 3000m/s, and the target is also able to go this speed, assuming you are basically chasing them, they would be 42500m away from launch point at the end of 7.5 seconds. Of course, this all assumes I know what I'm talking about math wise. Pirate
If that was the case (of a ship goind too fast), he wouldn't see a difference when keeping at range.

As far as I can say considering the informations we have, there's no reason for his LM to not hit their target.
Cheeswrinkle Ongrard
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-12-19 13:42:37 UTC
So it turns out i was missing the skill Guided Missile Precision. Crazy enough after i trained it up i started getting kills in my Kestrel last night. Amazing the difference it made for me. As for my Rail atron....it's retired.
Dan Carter Murray
#9 - 2013-12-19 15:09:39 UTC
Cheeswrinkle Ongrard wrote:
So it turns out i was missing the skill Guided Missile Precision. Crazy enough after i trained it up i started getting kills in my Kestrel last night. Amazing the difference it made for me. As for my Rail atron....it's retired.

how dare you retire a gallente ship.
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Cheeswrinkle Ongrard
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-12-19 15:14:45 UTC
I know rite....im pathetic :(. But sadly LML's > Rails.
Mehashi 'Kho
New Eden Motion Pictures
#11 - 2013-12-19 16:02:01 UTC
You know you don't always have to fly at 100% speed? Big smile

Many times doing so will be too fast ( to apply damage, to securely hold point, to quickly turn around if slingshotted and so on).

Speed is an asset not a commitment Big smile
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#12 - 2013-12-19 16:55:39 UTC
I'm going to second the suggestion that you should learn more about basic combat mechanics.

Spike has a .2 tracking modifier. That means that at 20km, you're going to track about as well as you would at 4km with any other weapon system. Tell me, if you were orbiting a target at 4km at full MWD speed with railguns, do you think you'd ever hit anything?

Don't use spike unless you plan to be hitting something much bigger than you, or you don't plan on there being a lot of movement.
Cheeswrinkle Ongrard
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-12-19 19:10:49 UTC
I was using Spike S i guess i didnt pay attention to the tracking modifier on the ammo. That was probably my issue. Never the less LML's are working great now so im going to jump ship from my Rail/Artti's and max LML's.

Missiles get alot of hate but i like them alot. I just finish reading a long thread about ppl QQing over missiles and how crap they are. My RNI does just fine in 4's and my kestrel/condor are doing well in FW. Everyone weapon type has it pros and cons, you just need to figure out what cons your ok with. I made this post to see if someone could sway my thinking in another direction.
Silverbackyererse
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-12-19 19:21:49 UTC
Oh noes. If CCP Rise reads this thread LML's are doomed. Shocked
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#15 - 2013-12-20 08:04:21 UTC
Because compared to small beams, small rails and small arties, lml's are op as ****.

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Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#16 - 2013-12-21 16:12:10 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Because compared to small beams, small rails and small arties, lml's are op as ****.


Your whining is op as ****. If your getting killed by frigates with 60dps and a paper thin tank its because you were successfully kited not because the weapon is OP. Light missiles are usually better than turrets for kiting, but turrets are better at just about everything else. Frigates are well balanced over all, most ships have a role in frigate pvp. We don't need any more balancing decisions made to suit the agenda of bitter role players.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#17 - 2013-12-21 16:21:08 UTC
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
Cheeswrinkle Ongrard wrote:
So it turns out i was missing the skill Guided Missile Precision. Crazy enough after i trained it up i started getting kills in my Kestrel last night. Amazing the difference it made for me. As for my Rail atron....it's retired.

how dare you retire a gallente ship.
http://i.imgur.com/c6xGi.jpg


Wut? I thought you were an amarr ship fan?

Or do you just prefer ships that are hard mode?
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#18 - 2013-12-21 17:51:52 UTC
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Because compared to small beams, small rails and small arties, lml's are op as ****.


Your whining is op as ****. If your getting killed by frigates with 60dps and a paper thin tank its because you were successfully kited not because the weapon is OP. Light missiles are usually better than turrets for kiting, but turrets are better at just about everything else. Frigates are well balanced over all, most ships have a role in frigate pvp. We don't need any more balancing decisions made to suit the agenda of bitter role players.
How many dps do you think small turrets can do at 15km ?

With an Atron, it will be around 60, yet you won't apply even half of it if you orbit at 17km.

In fact, I don't see a situation where SLRT are better than LML. They are not bad, but LML are simply always better.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#19 - 2013-12-21 18:18:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Fourteen Maken
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Because compared to small beams, small rails and small arties, lml's are op as ****.


Your whining is op as ****. If your getting killed by frigates with 60dps and a paper thin tank its because you were successfully kited not because the weapon is OP. Light missiles are usually better than turrets for kiting, but turrets are better at just about everything else. Frigates are well balanced over all, most ships have a role in frigate pvp. We don't need any more balancing decisions made to suit the agenda of bitter role players.
How many dps do you think small turrets can do at 15km ?

With an Atron, it will be around 60, yet you won't apply even half of it if you orbit at 17km.

In fact, I don't see a situation where SLRT are better than LML. They are not bad, but LML are simply always better.


The Condor is indeed better for kiting than an Atron, and in other news a Portuguese navigator trying to find a shorter route to the lucrative trade ports of the far east has instead discovered a vast new land mass.

Why do you think Gallente ships should be simply the best at everything? Are they not OP enough for you as it is?

EDIT: a blaster fit Atron will be able to tackle and melt a condor no problem, a Condor will not be able to live with a Tristan or a maulus either, and an incursus can perma tank just about any t1 frigate I can think of let alone the dps of a condor.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#20 - 2013-12-21 20:29:40 UTC
Fourteen Maken wrote:
The Condor is indeed better for kiting than an Atron, and in other news a Portuguese navigator trying to find a shorter route to the lucrative trade ports of the far east has instead discovered a vast new land mass.

Why do you think Gallente ships should be simply the best at everything? Are they not OP enough for you as it is?

EDIT: a blaster fit Atron will be able to tackle and melt a condor no problem, a Condor will not be able to live with a Tristan or a maulus either, and an incursus can perma tank just about any t1 frigate I can think of let alone the dps of a condor.
I wasn't talking about the Atron specificaly but small LR turrets. Is there any situation where SLRT are better than LML ? I don't see any.
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