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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Rigs - Powergrid and Capacitor

Author
Pinky Denmark
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-11-22 13:53:03 UTC
Since the introduction of rigs Eve has changed a lot. In general rigs are great, however some of them have softened the game a lot...

Powergrid rigs with absolutely no consequences increase a ships powergrid by 10% and CCC rigs can give 10% better cap recharge again for no consequences...
Obviously you can also fit other rigs and as such should be pretty balanced. But these rigs still have some unfortunate consequences:

Nobody will waste a lowslot using a T1 reactor control -> dps power creep.
Ships in general fit larger guns -> small tier guns becomes obsolete + dps power creep.
Most ships will be able to permarun tanks -> no challenge for carebears and other people
MWDs are much easier to fit and run -> nobody use AB anymore and MWDs have less drawback than they should

Proposal :
Change all T1 rigs to only give a 5% bonus
Change all T2 rigs to only give a 10% bonus
Introduce faction rigs - maybe 7,5% bonus and less drawbacks?

Also the drawbacks of rigs will have to be re-balanced for the sake of hybrids and other parts of Eve.

Pinky
GavinCapacitor
CaeIum Incognitum
#2 - 2011-11-22 15:11:12 UTC
You're entire post is bad, but this bit really stands out:

Pinky Denmark wrote:

MWDs are much easier to fit and run -> nobody use AB anymore and MWDs have less drawback than they should


You do realize that MWD's were recently changed so that a warp scrambler shuts them down, right? And because of this tons of people use AB's (dual prop or what have you).
Venus Rinah
Arcanum Industry
#3 - 2011-11-22 15:16:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Venus Rinah
-1,

I consider the current system to be currently balanced and challenge your claim of softening the game.

Remember that whilst some races/weapon system require more cap, it also means that the rigs need to be applied and other alternative rigs cannot be used to improve things in other areas. This is why we see missile boats with missile related rigs or shield boosts to improve tank further.

So if your going to nerf cap using races/weapon systems by the exclusion of rig use, then I would be asking for a rebalancing of the ships to improve their base cap abiltities so as to not to debilitate them altogther.

I appreciate you might think your request increases a sense of difficulty, but its biased in its implementation. Surely if you want things more difficult improve NPCs? I'm largley assuming you must be talking about PvE as PvP is unlikely to use cap stability but focus on buffer tanking and cap boosters instead for purposes.

Personally as an amarr pilot I find I have to use a number of cap related rigs just to have a fitting that works, its not an option its needed for any sensible fit, whereas I'd like to use alternative rigs to boost guns, speed or tank etc. And I emphasise this is moreso out of neccessity than a preference, this is even with the use of rechargers and relays. Applying this change would also significantly reduce the tank of Amarr ships as a result of having to apply the use of more cap related items.

Also as a result of the current cap fitting needs I find I have to specifically buy more ships, especially T1, and fit rigs intended for different purposes, role for PvE, role for PvP, and so on, as in the long run it's cheaper than swapping rigs, whereas other ships/racial preferences sometimes allows them to have a rig system for all seasons. Or at least doesn't suffer the same cap consideration issues for these differing environments.

Definatley unsupported if racial biases are not balanced to compensate.
Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
#4 - 2011-11-22 16:07:27 UTC
This is a sophisticated troll, right? You realize that in 95% of situations capacitor rigs or ACR's are subpar fitting choices? They've hardly become mandatory items that are making the game vastly easier for everyone - and fitting one means the sacrifice of an often more helpful tank or dps rig, which is a fairly steep sacrifice to make.
Nezumiiro Noneko
Alternative Enterprises
#5 - 2011-11-22 22:12:17 UTC
Tamiya Sarossa wrote:
This is a sophisticated troll, right? You realize that in 95% of situations capacitor rigs or ACR's are subpar fitting choices? They've hardly become mandatory items that are making the game vastly easier for everyone - and fitting one means the sacrifice of an often more helpful tank or dps rig, which is a fairly steep sacrifice to make.



425 II full rack rokh would be an exception.....that pig will tell you to diaf if you started with guns first no other mods for the 8th gun. this with AWU 5.

But yeah most times....energy grid kills a slot for a better rig. CNR a good example of this. the all rigor/flare rig fit kills much better than the 3 X CCC one.



Not even going to cover AB use.....guessing he has never come across dual prop before or an AF running AB. No sig bloom, better cap use if it breaks down to nos/neut wars and better speed control for orbits.....lots of things are keeping AB far from dead on the server.
Pinky Denmark
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-11-23 00:21:13 UTC
You guys have it too easy and you're just mad Im pointing it out hehe
Venus Rinah
Arcanum Industry
#7 - 2011-11-23 03:46:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Venus Rinah
Pinky Denmark wrote:
You guys have it too easy and you're just mad Im pointing it out hehe


Such an intelligent point with an irefutable logical argument how can I not do anything but bow down to the skillfull rhetoric and explanation guiding to the truth of the situation. ><

Or

I dont have a real argument and I'm a lazy troll, using CCP to compensate for my failings and a need to nerf others? Else if we all, "have it too easy", the focus would be on raising the difficulty of the game in a number of scenarios, not just focussing right down into one specific area of the game about it. Wonder why?

Get real, seems i wasted my time trying to explain things sensibly with this idiot. bb
Pinky Denmark
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-11-23 11:46:52 UTC
To be honest Eve has gone a little soft the last few years...
I don't want to just delete everything, but this suggestion was meant to get people thinking about the consequences of rigs and how many aspects of Eve has gone missing. Usually however people act like kids when you take away toys that they shouldn't have had in the first place...
I guess I made this post as a bittervet response to some whine I saw otherwhere but also I think it is a shame to have a game where reactor controls and low tier weaponry gets obsolete by rigs.

In Eve we used to never be able to get a "perfect fit" for anything.
You would always have to compromise something, but today you are likely to always be able to shoehorn in the last mods.
I don't know any setups where people are forced into using lower tier guns anymore. It's always heavy pulses, neutron blasters and 425mm autocannons unless people use something else on purpose for better tracking or other purposes...
With ACR rigs nobody is forced to use anything smaller than a 1600mm plate or a few LARGE shield extenders.

Also cap used to be a real issue when doing PvE and other things. now all PvE setups are capstable grinding machines with no challenge but avoiding suicide ganks.
Damage rigs only give half the benefit of a damage mod not even taking stacking penalties into account, but a ACR rig easily saves a lowslot with the same performance of a T1 reactor control with no drawbacks costing you no cpu.
Capacitor Power Relays gimp your active shield tanking, takes a lowslot used for damage and uses vital cpu - But a CCC rig gives you 10% better recharge for nothing.

Cheer up, think about it and just let the topic die if you disagree without having any reasonable arguments for your point of view...