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Ship Bay Nerf

Author
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#21 - 2013-12-17 22:18:37 UTC
Khoul Ay'd wrote:
And the simple counter to this nerf... Orca pilot launches ship X, ship pilot boards ship X in space, Orca pilot scoops ship Y. Voila! nerf defeatedRoll


This is okay. At least there is time between eject pod, eject ship, board ship. There are some moments in there where the ships are vulnerable to being stolen, and the pilot is in his pod that could be shot.
Travasty Space
Pilots of Epic
#22 - 2013-12-17 23:26:06 UTC
Why would you shoot a ship if you aren't prepared for PvP anyways?
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#23 - 2013-12-18 14:21:28 UTC
Travasty Space wrote:
Why would you shoot a ship if you aren't prepared for PvP anyways?


Being prepared for PvP is one thing. Fighting another pilot who then is able to switch ships immediately without any kind of penalty is another.

Excellent responses from everyone! Smile Thanks for the feedback.

I love this community.
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#24 - 2013-12-18 14:41:13 UTC
Da'iel Zehn wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:
There is already a targetting nerf on the orca maintanance bay so that if the parking ship is targetted they cannot dock that ship...

I was sitting at a gate observing the other night. A guy was using a Retriever as bait with his Orca behind him. A Caracal locked the Retriever and started firing. The guy in the Retriever switched to a Proteus immediately and ganked the caracal with his three buddies.

So I don't know what you are talking about when you say a "targeting nerf on the orca maintenance bay."

Smart Caracal pilot and his 3 buddies would've bumped that Orca and Retriever away from each other and proceeded with killing. Nothing needs to be changed.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.

Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2013-12-19 02:03:05 UTC
If this really proves to be a problem how about diengaging? if he outguns you using normal mechanics then it seems perfectly fair. It's almost like shooting a ship on station and then he comes out in a BS or carrier. Exploit? Not in my opinion
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#26 - 2013-12-19 04:45:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrified
Electrique Wizard wrote:
Why not for all ships huh?
What'd that orca ever do to you?



Well... I do know I escaped being podded when flying an Orca into a gate camp by ejecting the ships in the bay and boarding one of them. Don't ask... it was a "not paying attention" day.

But more likely he is thinking of people changing ships easily from a baiter to a ganker.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#27 - 2013-12-19 10:01:44 UTC
Da'iel Zehn wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
...that's subjective, you could equally argue that it's just emergent gameplay...

If emergent game play means exploits are fine... then I suppose you are right. We might as well all get us a pet Orca and drag them around with us. Stupid.


That's what I get for having sympathy for your idea, being called stupid. CCP give you the tools, the emergent part is what you do with them. There are similar threads about the mobile depot as apparently refitting your ship for pvp is also an exploit. Plus dragging an orca around with you really is stupid on account of the fact that it is slow and vulnerable which makes up for its versatility so it seems balanced to me.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Dav Varan
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-12-19 10:24:46 UTC
Flags for supplying a combat pilot with resources should be consistent.
Whether its a new ship from a bay or armor/ship/cap via transfer.

Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#29 - 2013-12-19 13:29:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Da'iel Zehn
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:

That's what I get for having sympathy for your idea, being called stupid. CCP give you the tools, the emergent part is what you do with them. There are similar threads about the mobile depot as apparently refitting your ship for pvp is also an exploit. Plus dragging an orca around with you really is stupid on account of the fact that it is slow and vulnerable which makes up for its versatility so it seems balanced to me.

Hi Little Dragon Khamez... Do you prefer Kham? No, I wasn't calling you stupid at all. I was calling the idea of everyone dragging around an Orca behind them stupid. You feel the same... "Plus dragging an orca around with you really is stupid..."

*warm hugs*
Smile
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#30 - 2013-12-19 13:32:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Da'iel Zehn
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
...There are similar threads about the mobile depot as apparently refitting your ship for pvp is also an exploit.

I don't see how that could be an exploit.
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#31 - 2013-12-19 13:35:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Da'iel Zehn
Rowells wrote:
If this really proves to be a problem how about diengaging? if he outguns you using normal mechanics then it seems perfectly fair. It's almost like shooting a ship on station and then he comes out in a BS or carrier. Exploit? Not in my opinion


If a pilot were to dock and come back out in a different ship that is fine. I don't consider than an exploit as I could dock up and change ships too.

Now if you were next to a station and could board a brand new ship in the middle of a fire fight with no delay, time lost, or penalty... that would be an exploit.
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#32 - 2013-12-19 13:39:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Da'iel Zehn
Petrified wrote:
Well... I do know I escaped being podded when flying an Orca into a gate camp by ejecting the ships in the bay and boarding one of them. Don't ask... it was a "not paying attention" day.

I don't consider that an exploit. You ejected the ships that could then be boarded by anyone. You ejected from the Orca, boarded another ship, and was able to escape.

There was time in there where you were vulnerable by changing vessels.

Edit: You must have had some serious implants? Smile
Gnadolin
Space Pioneers
#33 - 2013-12-19 18:14:11 UTC
You cant switch ships in the middle of a fight. As soon as you agres another player you receive a 60 seconds weapons timer. Wichprevents you from ejecting from your ship in any way. You can not store your ship into a ship bay or board a new ship when you have used an offensive module against a player within the last 60 seconds. This was introduced a couple oft expansions ago because people used Orcas Tod avoid ship losses in highsec gates in lowsec. I dont see the necessarity for further nerfs. If you engage a ship next to an orca without being alinged out, you deserve to die.
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#34 - 2013-12-19 18:27:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Da'iel Zehn
Gnadolin wrote:
You cant switch ships in the middle of a fight. As soon as you agres another player you receive a 60 seconds weapons timer. Wichprevents you from ejecting from your ship in any way. You can not store your ship into a ship bay or board a new ship when you have used an offensive module against a player within the last 60 seconds. This was introduced a couple oft expansions ago because people used Orcas Tod avoid ship losses in highsec gates in lowsec. I dont see the necessarity for further nerfs. If you engage a ship next to an orca without being alinged out, you deserve to die.

If the pilot is a suspect, they should not be able to switch ships in space using a ship bay during that time period, weapons timer or not.

I await CCP's judgement on the issue. If they say it's not an exploit, I'll disagree but I'll be satisfied the issue is resolved. If it is an exploit then I'm satisfied and agree with their decision.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#35 - 2013-12-19 19:18:18 UTC
Da'iel Zehn wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:

That's what I get for having sympathy for your idea, being called stupid. CCP give you the tools, the emergent part is what you do with them. There are similar threads about the mobile depot as apparently refitting your ship for pvp is also an exploit. Plus dragging an orca around with you really is stupid on account of the fact that it is slow and vulnerable which makes up for its versatility so it seems balanced to me.

Hi Little Dragon Khamez... Do you prefer Kham? No, I wasn't calling you stupid at all. I was calling the idea of everyone dragging around an Orca behind them stupid. You feel the same... "Plus dragging an orca around with you really is stupid..."

*warm hugs*
Smile


Squishy warm hugs back lol. :)

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#36 - 2013-12-19 19:20:18 UTC
The best way to deal with this (as has been previously suggested) is to have the orca pilot turn yellow as an aggressor on the overview that way you can freely engage him like you would if someone neutral started remote repping him. Accountability is everything in Eve.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#37 - 2013-12-19 21:46:26 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
What problem is this meant to solve?

Also, in a game with jump clones, FTL travel, and host of other things, this is the part that is unrealistic?



I think it's to solve the highsec mechanic of stealing someone's can, having them shoot you and then swapping your hauler for a combat ship to wreck them with.

Simple answer being, don't shoot suspects if there's an orca around.




simpler answer is don't shoot suspects. I have been baited many times in empire. Most of the time I checked bio's and saw a say a 1+ year old char. All I'd do is chat them up and go do you want me to turn the wrecks over to public as this ain't working buddy. Half the time I blitz anyway...call it old man syndrome maybe but I remember years ago loot drops being much better. Todays loot drops not worth collecting half of the time, and definately not worth dying for to a bait and switch kill right scheme.

Did the same when mining....chat them up and say may want to find another miner, a few 1000 isk of trit is not going to emo rage me enough to lose a hulk that easy.

Daenika
Chambers of Shaolin
#38 - 2013-12-20 06:01:27 UTC
Fundamental rule of game design: when there's a conflict between realism/immersion and effective gameplay design, the latter almost always wins. Introducing QoL degradation, additional server load, additional player obstacles, and potentially large balance changes just to make something "more realistic" if flat idiotic when it comes to game design. The only time where such a change is warranted is when the additional benefit of that added realism is enough of a gameplay improvement to justify any and all detrimental gameplay side-effects (if any) and the additional development time needed to design, code, test, and deploy such a change.

In this case, the detriments are many and large, the benefits few and conflicted, and the work required to implement rather large (in particular to analyze the balance changes this may have, and make sure there aren't any issues with getting stuck part-way). Net: not worth it.

Just because it's more realistic doesn't mean it's worth adding.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#39 - 2013-12-20 06:35:20 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
The best way to deal with this (as has been previously suggested) is to have the orca pilot turn yellow as an aggressor on the overview that way you can freely engage him like you would if someone neutral started remote repping him. Accountability is everything in Eve.

You seem to misunderstand how the mechanic works.

The correct chain of events is thus.
Orca ejects Ship from maintenance bay.
Bait pilot ejects from their own ship & is now a pod in space.
At this point, there are two ships sitting empty in space, ANYONE can board either of these ships. The Orca pilot can not control who boards the ships at this point.
Bait Pilot boards combat ship (If they are fast enough)
Orca scoops Bait ship (if they are fast enough)

As you can see, the 'baited' could have a friend on stand by ready to also eject and jump in said Proteus/etc. And laugh all the way to the bank at the easy money, so the bait can be turned on it's head.
Also since the Orca pilot has no control over who boards the ship they ejected, they get no flags from it. Since it is no longer their ship floating in space but free game for any pilot to grab it.
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#40 - 2013-12-20 15:23:20 UTC
Daenika wrote:
Just because it's more realistic doesn't mean it's worth adding.

I can appreciate this opinion. Smile
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