EVE General Discussion

^ Force projection should be nerfed, it would differentiate guerrilla gangs from large blobs due to logistics and chain of command rigidity.

I would opine that the current trend of single ship blobs that null sec is becoming (again) is NOT where Eve Online shines.

In pure numbers of players interacting, it's impressive- but the actual experience of those fights leaves much to be desired. Between hideous TiDi, node crashes, and the inherently brainless tactics that single ship blobs employ- it is a far cry from what is, at least in my opinion, where PvP does actually 'shine'.

My favorite fleets are medium sized 20-50 man gangs. Large enough to have all fleet roles represented, large enough to not spend it's time constantly running away- but very rarely does it trip TiDi, and while you can sustain some losses without having to call it quits, every ship still counts. This is where tactics and doctrines really get tested. And since Tiericide, has seen an explosion of once ignored ships becoming useful. Variety is fun.

When I started Eve, it was the days of there being basically three ships used in PvP- the Sabre, the Blackbird, and of course....the NanoDrake. Drakes as far as the D-Scan could see. Didn't matter that there were dozens of cool looking ships in the game, just fly Drakes.........AND IT WAS BORING.

Sadly, both N3 and the CFC have taken Eve two steps backwards by announcing that once again the meta is blobbing a single ship type and PvP being a matter of spamming F1.
I consider that the single greatest proof of a broken mechanic in Eve- when blobbing one ship is so powerful that the only response is to counter blob with another-- that's broken.

There is a world of difference between big fights, and good fights.

The number in a fleet doesn't matter, whether it be 20, 50, 100, 500, 1000 etc because the opposing force will always try and bring more then you as having more usually means greater chance of winning the battle.

The only way to make sure the opposing force is unable to contest a system/fight is to make sure that you fill the system with so many of your own force that if the enemy tries to enter it will crash the node.

You go out in a 50 man gang, the opposing force with come out with more, you counter, they counter and so on until one force is either dead / retreats or the node crashes.

The blob has always existed and will continue to exist.

Also people constantly going on about F1 monkeys, this has been the case for years in fleet fights and will continue to be, not because of any type of ship type / Fleet Doctrine but of the actual mechanics of Eve.

Eve is not Freelancer, X-Wing, Tie Fighter, Freespace etc where you have freedom of movement and real pilot skill is a major consideration of any space battle.

Just going to point out the obvious here. EVE has always been a numbers game, both in terms of math and in terms of force sizes. That said, no, blob warfare, capital warfare and the like do not impact the better sub-cap fights, just as they never have, because there is a special place for sub-cap warfare in high sec, low sec and NPC 0.0 that is there and always was... you just had/have to figure out how to find it and get involved.

EVE is still very much what you make of it, including what kind of PvP we engineer and subject ourselves to. Truth is, unless you're dealing with sovereignty, sub-capital warfare is still very much alive. And even in the old days of POS spamming, when sov was all about calculating how many structures you could throw up relative to how quickly you could take other structures down, EVE was a fairly even split between those who wanted into that lifestyle and those who wanted nothing to do with it. Frankly, from what I can see, nothing has changed in this regard.

eve isn't about fun

The battles that shine in EvE are cloaked t3 cruisers sitting in a bubble ganking rookie ships. Those are the battles that shine in eve.

A casual observation...

PvE combat is all about endurance. Since you're probably alone and going up against a dozen or more rats all at once, the most important thing is that your ship can soak up absurd amounts of damage over long periods of time. Missions generally aren't over in two minutes or less, so you need to base your ship, your modules, and your overall strategy based on being able to simply outlast the micro-blob thrown against you. Things like ECM and whatnot play a very small part due to the sheer number of enemies.

Small gang PvP is (usually) the opposite, ergo: All about the DPS. Every tweak you can imagine to cram that extra point of damage in to kill the other guy first and we'll worry about repairs afterward (if at all). The battles are fast, over in under two minutes (or even one minute), and it's a completely different experience than regular mission PvE.

But once we get into the realm of carriers, bastion modules, and blob warfare, what happens? You're back to PvE tactics. Back to armor reppers, back to long, drawn out battles that never seem to end and a contest to see who can outlast the other guy. Again ECM and all that, while present, fall to the wayside - especially when all the ships either have huge base sensor strengths or are simply outright immune to begin with. People sit in place and chuck special effects at each other until one side or the other runs out of cap boosters, ships, or whatever and then either runs or collapses entirely.

So in summary, when people talk about PvP I think what they really mean is small gang PvP because from what I've seen of blob battles it looks a heck of a lot more like a typical rat filled PvE situation than anything else. Oh look, lock down, engage bastion, fire up the ASB/AAR, launch sentries, and see who runs out of stuff first. The hordes of little ships flying around between the supercaps ala "Star Wars" that you see in the CCP made videos? Sorry, have never seen than in an actual gameplay video.

Small gang PvP is like an ambush in the Vietnam War. Blob war PvP is like an 18th century musket battle. And somehow the gap between PvE and PvP tactics get a lot narrower, too.

Just my 2 ISK. Your mileage may vary.

A blob is not defined by the number of ships, but by being a generalized collection of either identical or utterly dissimilar types- as well as an equally amorphous (just spam F1) tactical approach.

For example, that kitchen sink mess that high sec tried to bring to the last big live event was a blob. It lacked any cohesion or overall doctrine or purpose. It was more akin to a herd of sheep just following the butt in front of them and waiting to be told "shoot that', and hoping that sheer numbers will hand over victory.

A well organized and balanced fleet doesn't suddenly become a blob just because it crosses some arbitrary threshold of numbers of ships. 1000 pilots in an organized balanced fleet, is just a big fleet -but not a blob by any useful definition.

The term is abused to basically mean 'any fleet larger than I can muster', which is incorrect.