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Unify the sensorstrenght implants
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Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-12-16 18:01:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Madbuster73
Atm we have 4 implant sets that increase your sensorstrenght for each race.
This is kinda ridicilous if you fly all 4 races on a daily base.
This would mean you would have to make 4 clones for all races leaving you no room for other clones (snakes, slaves, etc)

So my idea is to change the 4 implant sets (Grail, Jackal, Spur, Talon) into 1 implant set that increases your sensorstrenght no mather what race you fly.....

That would make much more sense, since all the other implant sets work for all races as well....
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#2 - 2013-12-16 18:05:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
I'm going to assume you have significant difficulty with Falcons.

Anyway, compromises don't stop at the fitting window. If you're worried about having clones, then pick a race to boost and leave the others unboosted.

-1 for this. In a game where so many people rush to train every single thing that can be trained, there should still be some perks to picking just one race to specialize in.
Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-12-16 18:11:15 UTC
I am going to assume you fly a falcon all the time?


this is the same as making 4 kind of snake implants, for each race 1.
would that make sense??
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#4 - 2013-12-16 18:37:27 UTC
Madbuster73 wrote:


this is the same as making 4 kind of snake implants, for each race 1.
would that make sense??



Analogy fails on multiple levels.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#5 - 2013-12-16 18:52:25 UTC
I don't fly a falcon any of the time.

But I do specialize in Minmatar and if I were to use a sensor strength implant it would be for Ladar.
Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-12-16 22:34:54 UTC
anyway, you like it or you dont like it, but it seems like a good idea to me :)
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2013-12-16 23:08:58 UTC
Agreeable
Would be more fun to do other things with them
Like have it be half current but you get 2 skills boosted like with navy mindlinks
so sensor and say a racial bit
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#8 - 2013-12-16 23:17:28 UTC
I'm in favour of a unified pirate implant set on this also. Because it adds trade offs much better. Right now it's a very underused implant set because it only applies to a single type of sensor strength. While other sets like slaves or crystal give much wider used bonuses.
By making it apply across the board it benefits any ship that isn't E-War immune, and so creates more opportunity cost for the other pirate sets. Which is a good thing.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-12-16 23:18:06 UTC
They are militia LP items, so no they should not be unified.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-12-17 04:39:42 UTC
put all racial jams becoming 1 universal jam (strength stays the same for t2) on the table this could go somewhere.

And to make all the high meta vs t2 whiing people happy....lets trash the stats on the non t2 gear to make them happy as t2 would finally be better. See, this is me being nice here. I like the cheap jams runners sell for chump change.
NaK'Lin
Seamen Force
#11 - 2013-12-17 07:44:54 UTC
-1
NO

I'll make things clear :
my buddy flies ECM whenever he can together with me.
I have clones with SStrength implants as well.
I can usually boost a ships SStrength high enough through FITTING that even a flacon will have to land a "lucky jam". Most likely just before he dies, because ECCM tastes like strawberry butter with chocolate beer. Yum!

The sets have a specific use for me, and you simply should commit about what you get boosted the next 24h (now 19).
EvE is a game about choices, and NO, you don't get a free "i'm unjammable" card unless you commit to a choice you made.

By your analogy to snakes, i would want the crystal set to boost ALL ACTIVE reps, shield AND armor, and the slave set to bonify your armor OR shield, whichever has more in-game EHP. Does that sound wrong to you? Thats what your proposal sounds like to most other people.

in the end, this is an MMO.
ECM is part of the game. Bring your own. The satisfaction of jamming your opponents ECM because they decloaked their falcon too early is just wonderful. People have to stop whining about ECM.
It is an M-M-O. you want to go solo, that's your mistake / peril. In the end, it's your choice to run around alone, but you should be surprised if people with friends bring more variety to the fight than you.


--NaK
Katia Echerie
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#12 - 2013-12-17 14:17:46 UTC
NaK'Lin wrote:
-1
NO

I'll make things clear :
my buddy flies ECM whenever he can together with me.
I have clones with SStrength implants as well.
I can usually boost a ships SStrength high enough through FITTING that even a flacon will have to land a "lucky jam". Most likely just before he dies, because ECCM tastes like strawberry butter with chocolate beer. Yum!

The sets have a specific use for me, and you simply should commit about what you get boosted the next 24h (now 19).
EvE is a game about choices, and NO, you don't get a free "i'm unjammable" card unless you commit to a choice you made.

By your analogy to snakes, i would want the crystal set to boost ALL ACTIVE reps, shield AND armor, and the slave set to bonify your armor OR shield, whichever has more in-game EHP. Does that sound wrong to you? Thats what your proposal sounds like to most other people.

in the end, this is an MMO.
ECM is part of the game. Bring your own. The satisfaction of jamming your opponents ECM because they decloaked their falcon too early is just wonderful. People have to stop whining about ECM.
It is an M-M-O. you want to go solo, that's your mistake / peril. In the end, it's your choice to run around alone, but you should be surprised if people with friends bring more variety to the fight than you.


--NaK


And this is why we have power creep. But yes, I'll agree sensor strength implants shouldn't be unified because ECM jammers are not unified. However, theres much to be said about current ECM mechanics and the whole chance based BS. ECM has to start working always reliably albeit only working when jam strength is higher than the ship sensor strength. And no ECM users aren't getting any sympathy from me as it is a type of EWAR that is only used by small gangs as an I WIN button.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#13 - 2013-12-17 18:03:32 UTC
I can get behind this idea if the implant bonuses were reduced a little bit (make it function just slightly better then one ECCM).

How did you Veterans start?
Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-12-17 21:04:22 UTC
Katia Echerie wrote:
NaK'Lin wrote:
-1
NO

I'll make things clear :
my buddy flies ECM whenever he can together with me.
I have clones with SStrength implants as well.
I can usually boost a ships SStrength high enough through FITTING that even a flacon will have to land a "lucky jam". Most likely just before he dies, because ECCM tastes like strawberry butter with chocolate beer. Yum!

The sets have a specific use for me, and you simply should commit about what you get boosted the next 24h (now 19).
EvE is a game about choices, and NO, you don't get a free "i'm unjammable" card unless you commit to a choice you made.

By your analogy to snakes, i would want the crystal set to boost ALL ACTIVE reps, shield AND armor, and the slave set to bonify your armor OR shield, whichever has more in-game EHP. Does that sound wrong to you? Thats what your proposal sounds like to most other people.

in the end, this is an MMO.
ECM is part of the game. Bring your own. The satisfaction of jamming your opponents ECM because they decloaked their falcon too early is just wonderful. People have to stop whining about ECM.
It is an M-M-O. you want to go solo, that's your mistake / peril. In the end, it's your choice to run around alone, but you should be surprised if people with friends bring more variety to the fight than you.


--NaK


And this is why we have power creep. But yes, I'll agree sensor strength implants shouldn't be unified because ECM jammers are not unified. However, theres much to be said about current ECM mechanics and the whole chance based BS. ECM has to start working always reliably albeit only working when jam strength is higher than the ship sensor strength. And no ECM users aren't getting any sympathy from me as it is a type of EWAR that is only used by small gangs as an I WIN button.


You are forgetting that you can simple refit your ships with other racial jammer... you can not quickly "refit" your implants, so what your saying makes no sense.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-12-17 22:22:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
ShahFluffers wrote:
I can get behind this idea if the implant bonuses were reduced a little bit (make it function just slightly better then one ECCM).



The issue here is they have all but deprecated these implants over time. Not much left to take away really.


They put in the sensor skills to boost naturally strength. With some fitting you could not need these as much. I know we have the dreaded perma jammers. But as a player who has trained for ecm this requires some effort all do not put the max effort into. Me for example, I am waiting for some final perc/will trains to go int/mem spec to get some final ecm boosting electronics skills to 5 (among other egghead level 5's ofc) . Basically with sensor skill(s) (if not pure blood) to five my jams can be avoided more often if care in fitting is made.


They removed their ability to make a ship unprobable. While still hard to find a reduction in strength could mathmatically make this even harder. In a worst case we are looking at not even needing virtues to reliably find a hard to probe ship. Given all the probing changes its the sensor implants on certain ships that still keeps some cat and mouse action in the game. This an aspect I happen to like. I in the old days liked seeing even greedy unprobables go wtf when caught and killed. We had a prober who had the neat idea of finding the site they were on instead since finding the unprobable a waste of time.
Travasty Space
Pilots of Epic
#16 - 2013-12-17 23:08:20 UTC
Eve is about choices, implants is one of those choices. About the only change I would agree to on this one is if the omega implant was condensed into one implant so you could mix up the 1-5 slot implants to get the eccm boosts you want.
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#17 - 2013-12-18 00:06:32 UTC
I really like this idea. I know implants are a choice with consequences. These implants are pretty much unused by themselves. How about instead of a choice that is rarely used, we make it a more powerful implant that cost much more to buy. Combine the 4 implants. Make them 4-6 times a much to buy. Have them for sale in all the FW and anywhere else they are for sale currently. PvPer use them. There is still choice (Use them or not) and consequences (that cost). All the carebears still make isk selling them. Everyone wins.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#18 - 2013-12-18 00:37:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Aliventi wrote:
All the carebears still make isk selling them. Everyone wins.



Its not carebears per se, these are FW items. Lots of threads to argue about cloaked stab farmers and will not try to bring that crap here but....there is an element of danger to these if some extra effort put in to grab them.

And going back to unprobable, your strength boost might bring that back. CCP did mathematical magic to the probing equation to prevent this. Magic number was 1.4 iirc for sig radius to signal strength ratio. They made this bar go real low but its still there irrc.

EFT'ing with my current hg talon/eccm/gravi II sba/dissolution sub at skill level 5 set up has me at .7ish (I compensated for the days when t2 fury induced sig bloom penalty, the tengu char setup is a few years old) . More you boost that sig strenght the faster I am dropping to 0. Programmatically ccp would have lots of fun working with a negative value to keep the unprobable lock in place. And hard to probe even virtued is a massive pita if they worked this somehow. End result would be pseudo unprobable basically no matter they did.
Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-12-21 20:35:33 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
Aliventi wrote:
All the carebears still make isk selling them. Everyone wins.



Its not carebears per se, these are FW items. Lots of threads to argue about cloaked stab farmers and will not try to bring that crap here but....there is an element of danger to these if some extra effort put in to grab them.

And going back to unprobable, your strength boost might bring that back. CCP did mathematical magic to the probing equation to prevent this. Magic number was 1.4 iirc for sig radius to signal strength ratio. They made this bar go real low but its still there irrc.

EFT'ing with my current hg talon/eccm/gravi II sba/dissolution sub at skill level 5 set up has me at .7ish (I compensated for the days when t2 fury induced sig bloom penalty, the tengu char setup is a few years old) . More you boost that sig strenght the faster I am dropping to 0. Programmatically ccp would have lots of fun working with a negative value to keep the unprobable lock in place. And hard to probe even virtued is a massive pita if they worked this somehow. End result would be pseudo unprobable basically no matter they did.



This has nothing to do with probing as nothing changes in strength. except that the implants will work for all races...
Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-01-11 17:42:48 UTC
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