These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

FW, Jump Clones, Cerebral Accelerator and managing transversal

Author
Vandal Snow
DTC S
#1 - 2013-12-12 10:52:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Vandal Snow
Hi Big smile,

Im planning to get myself into FW. I got myself an prototype cerebral accelerator and some +3 implants last night.

My plan is to get cybernetics up to V asap so i get the most benefit out of having improved implants.

However when i start FW i dont want to risk flying around with a half a billion isk pod. So i need acess to jump clones. But becuase i am planning on staying in frigates for the forseeable future i doubt i will be able to grind up the 8.0? standing myself doing pve (and i dont want to either)

So are there any gallente FW corps with JC access (standings) out there that i can join?

Also Does anyone know if the cerbral acceleerator is lost upon death?

and finally is my plan of using the prototype cerebral accelerator with +3 implants (and then +4's once i have cybernetics IV) to get cybernetics V first the fastest way of doing things in the longrun?

Once my two weeks of cerebral acceleration is up i will probably get the standard cerebral accelerator. for an additional +3 to all stats along with my +5 implants.

Remap putting charisma as low as it will go (charisma implant aswell) and adding those points to all other skills.

is this the fastest plan?
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-12-12 11:11:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
The cerebral accelerators will stay active even after death or jump cloning.

You can use EACS to get free jump clones.

If you want my opinion, you will get better overall value for your time by flying with cheap implants and playing all the time than jumping between a cheap and an expensive clone and having to take days off of EVE. (Unless you are forced to take some days off because of your life anyway.)

Here's a free tip: Every skill's training speed is affected by only two attributes. For 98% of skills this is either PER/WIL or INT/MEM. You can therefore save a bunch of money by having a PER/WIL clone and an INT/MEM clone and jumping between them as you switch your skill training. You still get the full benefits, but you only need to replace two implants instead of four when you die.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-12-12 13:36:23 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
The cerebral accelerators will stay active even after death or jump cloning.

You can use EACS to get free jump clones.

If you want my opinion, you will get better overall value for your time by flying with cheap implants and playing all the time than jumping between a cheap and an expensive clone and having to take days off of EVE. (Unless you are forced to take some days off because of your life anyway.)

Here's a free tip: Every skill's training speed is affected by only two attributes. For 98% of skills this is either PER/WIL or INT/MEM. You can therefore save a bunch of money by having a PER/WIL clone and an INT/MEM clone and jumping between them as you switch your skill training. You still get the full benefits, but you only need to replace two implants instead of four when you die.


I agree.

It's better to play every day and just have +3's (for instance) in your clone. Then to be forced to stay in a clone that has +5's for 19 - 24h (depending on skill level trained) and not do anything major.

Then again, having a +5 clone can be helpful if you go away from the game because of real life (for instance: You go on a 2 week holiday and can't log in. Time to jump to the +5 clone and add a skill that takes at least 2 weeks to train and go and have your holiday without having to worry about EVE).

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Vandal Snow
DTC S
#4 - 2013-12-12 14:22:59 UTC
So maybe i should go for a compromise and just stick with +4's?

They cost a fifth of what +5's cost so i wouldn't mind flying with those...

and you right i will be spending most of my time in low sec.

I just want to get my training done asap.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-12-12 15:04:49 UTC
Vandal Snow wrote:
So maybe i should go for a compromise and just stick with +4's?

They cost a fifth of what +5's cost so i wouldn't mind flying with those...

and you right i will be spending most of my time in low sec.

I just want to get my training done asap.


If you can afford to replace +4's if needed...stick with them.

Just keep in mind that if you get podded, you will lose them.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-12-12 16:48:17 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
The cerebral accelerators will stay active even after death or jump cloning.
Are you sure about that?

From what I heard, the cerebral accelerators will stay active after death, but not after jump cloning.
However, I've never used one myself, so I am not certain and that information might be outdated.

As for Cybernetics V: it takes about 10 months of training with +5 implants to get back the time spend training the skill. Oh and you will lose your clone by doing something stupid at some point. Therefore I'd stick with Cybernetics IV and +4s for the first year.
IIR4MBOII
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#7 - 2013-12-12 17:09:25 UTC
I can assure you i have lost many new characters all with cerebral the most drastic was the 1bil variant

and you will lose them if podded.

you can lose your ship but not the pod.

do not die with them in

thanks
Vandal Snow
DTC S
#8 - 2013-12-12 18:14:32 UTC
ok thanks for the tips every1 =)
Vandal Snow
DTC S
#9 - 2013-12-15 16:16:22 UTC
Hi Ive got another question,

the first cerebral accelerator i used was the protype cerbral accelerator which gives +9 to all stats for 14 days.

The standard cerebreal accelerator gives +3 to all stats for 35 days

Once my prototype cerebral accelerator runs out will i be able to use the standard one for another 21 days?

thanks
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-12-15 20:47:18 UTC
Vandal Snow wrote:
Once my prototype cerebral accelerator runs out will i be able to use the standard one for another 21 days?
Yes
Nikolai Vodkov
Pro Synergy
#11 - 2013-12-16 04:07:18 UTC
Spam warp out button on a celestial BEFORE your ship explodes. I suggest you get some practice with your friends on warping out your pod. Get a rookie ship, have a friend in a fast locking ship blow you up and try to warp scram your pod.
With enough practice, you should almost never lose your pod in Empire space (LS, HS).

Run level 4 missions?  Increase your income and help new players earn ISK.  Join channel: [b]Pro Synergy Pro Synergy[/b] is looking for dedicated Salvagers.  Want to learn more?  Join channel: Pro Synergy

Vandal Snow
DTC S
#12 - 2013-12-16 14:06:07 UTC
thanks nikolai ill be sure to try that.

I also had an off topic question about orbiting.

i did some of the tutorials with an afterburner fitted to my ship. I hit orbit the enemy and started shooting.

now when i was approaching the enemy before i started to circle him i hit him very hard took his shields and a bit of armour.

then once i started orbiting i kept missing my target.

Is this because of transversal that i have read about?

if so i guess orbiting an enemy is bad because it makes them harder to hit. Is that correct?

should i just hit approach?

if what ive read about transversal is true then approaching an enemy would make me easier to hit as well and then it would just come down to who has the higher dps and tank. is any of this correct?

thanks



Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-12-16 14:53:48 UTC
Vandal Snow wrote:
if so i guess orbiting an enemy is bad because it makes them harder to hit. Is that correct?
First, you might want to create a new thread if you completely change the topic, so that others with the same question can more easily find it.

Second, yes, that's the transversal you heard about and no, it's not necessarily bad.
Transversal is a double-edged sword, it makes it harder to hit for both you and your opponent. (Assuming you both use turrets - missiles are a different beast, they only look at your speed, not your direction.)

So yes, if you want to deal maximum damage, you want to keep your transversal low. But then, you also want to avoid taking damage, so you want to have a high transversal. In the end, you should look at tracking - tracking counters transversal, so if you have better tracking than your opponent, you want high transversal as it will hurt him more than you. Otherwise you want low transversal. This is especially true if you are fighting a different size - smaller weapons have much better tracking than medium or large weapons, so a Frigate will want high transversal when fighting a Cruiser or bigger. OTOH in a Battleship you must reduce transversal to almost zero to be able to hit a Frigate (usually, you get that by being 50+ km away.)

And of course, if dealing damage is more important than avoiding damage (because you know you can tank it and want to finish the mission quickly, because you think he has friends that will come help him soon, because it's a suicide gank, etc...), then you want as little transversal as possible.

To reduce transversal, you can
  • orbit at a larger distance
  • orbit slower (turn off your afterburner and maybe even select a lower speed)
  • stay at a distance and let them come to you - even fly away from your target
  • fly in parallel ("look at" the target and match its speed and direction)
Vandal Snow
DTC S
#14 - 2013-12-16 15:38:19 UTC
First thanks for your reply -->i updated the title so hopefully people will find it better. Big smile

So um wow transversal, yeah. I'm planning on getting into FW and staying in frigates for a looong time.

my plan is to get gallente frigates, tech II blasters and support skills maxed out asap. I'll be using the incursus mainly at first then upgrade into the assault frigate i forget the name.

I guess since blasters have the shortest range and the best tracking (or so ive read) i will do well orbiting people and managing my speed? like what i mean is i should be able to out-track them at least? (depending on what they are flying of course). But then if blasters have the best tracking i should be ok right?

Tracking then kinda reminds me of chance to hit stats from other games.

If so is it the most important stat if you plan on orbiting ur enemy? and should i do my best to max out this stat as much as possible?

what if i use the keep at distance command would that help in managing my transversal or just make me a sitting duck?

Also when in frigate pvp should i even orbit them , i read somewhere that most frigate battles are over in around a minute is that true?

pvp in this games sounds like it would be a ton of fun considering how you have to manage all of this stuff in a very short space of time. awesome.

thanks again for all the replies
Jia Cato
Drone Matriarch
#15 - 2013-12-16 19:22:40 UTC
Thomas Builder wrote:

  • fly in parallel ("look at" the target and match its speed and direction)
  • [/list]


    This is what I wanted to ask about the other day but forgot, I take it this means if I and someone else fly next to eachothers facing the same way, it does not matter even if our speed is 1km+/s since to eachothers we are standing still basically assuming we have the exact same speed?
    Vandal Snow
    DTC S
    #16 - 2013-12-17 15:10:10 UTC
    hi again, after much reading and searching i found some intersting thread on reddit that says if you think your opponent has higher tracking than you do not orbit them.

    so what happens when you have the higher tracking and your opponent decides to use the keep at range command rather than orbit you but you decide to orbit them?

    I guess if im faster than him i will catch him orbit but what will their ship end up doing and how would this affect transversal? thanks

    i guess since nobodys answering my questions much i should get out there and just try this stuff out...
    SurrenderMonkey
    State Protectorate
    Caldari State
    #17 - 2013-12-17 16:53:44 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
    Vandal Snow wrote:
    hi again, after much reading and searching i found some intersting thread on reddit that says if you think your opponent has higher tracking than you do not orbit them.


    It's not that simple, really. If we're talking about an entire weight class worth of tracking distance (frigate Vs. cruiser) then, yeah, the slower tracker isn't going to want to be in an orbit. Within the same weight class, it's not so simple. For instance, maybe your opponent has slightly better tracking, and is buffer tanked, while you have slightly worse tracking but are active tanked.

    Orbiting will reduce the damage you both take, and, yeah, it will reduce yours more than his, but if doing so reduces his damage to less than your sustainable repair, you can eventually wear through his buffer while permatanking his damage.

    "Help, I'm bored with missions!"

    http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

    Thomas Builder
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #18 - 2013-12-17 17:16:05 UTC
    Vandal Snow wrote:
    I guess since blasters have the shortest range and the best tracking (or so ive read) i will do well orbiting people and managing my speed? like what i mean is i should be able to out-track them at least? (depending on what they are flying of course). But then if blasters have the best tracking i should be ok right?

    In general yes. But there is considerably overlap.
    E.g. while a Small Electron Blaster has the best tracking in game, a Small Neutron Blaster doesn't track quite as well and a 125mm Gatling AutoCannon will out-track a Small Neutron Blaster. But the neutron blaster still tracks better than a 200mm AutoCannon.

    Vandal Snow wrote:
    Tracking then kinda reminds me of chance to hit stats from other games.

    If so is it the most important stat if you plan on orbiting ur enemy? and should i do my best to max out this stat as much as possible?
    Not necessarily. You only need "enough". The way turret damage works, you will deal almost full damage if your angular speed is half of your tracking speed or less. An electron blaster with its 0.44 rad/second tracking will already miss extremely rarely, as you need a very fast&agile ship to orbit at over 0.20 rad/second.

    Jia Cato wrote:
    Thomas Builder wrote:

  • fly in parallel ("look at" the target and match its speed and direction)


  • This is what I wanted to ask about the other day but forgot, I take it this means if I and someone else fly next to eachothers facing the same way, it does not matter even if our speed is 1km+/s since to eachothers we are standing still basically assuming we have the exact same speed?
    Yes. As you are standing still to each other, transversal velocity will be 0.

    Vandal Snow wrote:
    so what happens when you have the higher tracking and your opponent decides to use the keep at range command rather than orbit you but you decide to orbit them?
    Try it out. But in general those commands are quite stupid and cope badly with changing situations. E.g. it is possible to trick the "orbit at" program into flying in parallel with you. It's still sometimes useful, especially when you are much faster than your target (e.g. Frigate vs. Battleship), but you will want to learn flying manually. (= double-click in space to start flying in that direction.)
    Nick Starkey
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #19 - 2013-12-18 19:54:35 UTC
    Tracking and transversal only affect turret based systems. Missiles, bombs and drones use their own formulas (altough drones have a similar calculation to turrets).

    Damage from turret weapons is not constant, it depends on your ability to control the engagement, and this will affect both your damage and chance to hit. Tracking is basically a measure of how well your gun can hit moving targets: just think of it as the speed as it can turn around to catch up with enemy movement. This speed is measured in radians per second, which is its angular velocity. The ability to track also depends on the target's size (in this case, signature radius). Smaller ships are harder to hit and vice versa. The other factor that affects damage and hit chance is the weapon's signature resolution, which is higher for smaller weapons and lower for bigger weapons. This basically means that larger guns have more difficulty at hitting smaller targets.

    For best damage in turret weapons you want to keep angular velocity to a minimum. If the circunstances are right, even a large turret can hit small and fast moving targets reliably.

    Reducing angular velocity can be done in several ways:
    -slowing down the target's velocity means they can not create such wide angles with their flight
    -increasing your distance to the target (assuming the target keeps its trajectory) will give you a smaller angular velocity (the further away you are, the smaller the arc created by the other ship is to yourself)
    -match the target's flight. If both are moving in the same direction, angular velocity will be zero. This is why a small, fast moving ship can easily be destroyer by a larger weapon if it's flying straight to it.

    There is also the factor of optimal and falloff ranges. Optimal range is the distance where your guns hit the hardest, and quickly start degrating as they enter falloff ranges. For reference, you deal full damage anywhere inside your optimal range, and it starts dropping to around ~50% damage and chance to hit as you approach the far edge of falloff. At optimal + 2x falloff, your chance to hit is basically 0%.

    Each turret weapon has varying effective ranges and tracking. Autocannons have small optimal range and very large falloffs, and decent tracking. Artillery have larger optimal and average falloff but very poor tracking. Blasters have extremly short optimal and falloff, but the highest tracking and potential damage. Railguns have very long optimals and falloffs, with average tracking. Pulse and Beam lasers operate mostly within their very generous optimal range, but suffer from tracking issues.

    I've made a signature. I hope you're enjoying it. www.evetrademaster.com - web based asset manager & profit tracker

    Vandal Snow
    DTC S
    #20 - 2013-12-19 10:48:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Vandal Snow
    wow thanks for all your replies, this stuff is really helping me learn. Im hoping to finally take the dive into FW soon. I should have t2 hybrids by sat morning, then ill move onto getting gallente frigate V.

    Following that weapon upgrades 4 and cpu management 4.

    I have a bunch of other skills up to 3 already, rapid firing, surgical strike etc.

    All in all i should be ready to start by next weekend hopefully. I know that i could get started right away but i really want a good chance of winning an engagement.

    Also i think it might surprise some people if such a young pilot has decent skills becuase i have specialised (at least thats what my brother says anyway)

    I think i'm going to put angular velocity on my overview (i noticed it there under options last night), for some reason my bro only set it up to show velocity which i guess must be important too or he wouldn't have put it there lol).

    Ill use whats shown there to try and keep angular velocity down so i can hit better. No idea about manually piloting to do this though. It sounds difficult.

    Any tips on manual piloting and thus reducing angular velocity. I know someone said fly in parallel to the enemy but that sounds difficult in itself.

    does the agony unleashed basic class deal with any of this?

    If i want a decent chance of winning an engagement will level 4 skills + t2 weaponry be enough?

    Thanks Big smile
    12Next page