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So a 30 mill isk ship will be able to 1 volley a 100-150 mill ship in hi-sec.
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Dr Karsun
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
#21 - 2011-11-22 15:10:15 UTC
Andski wrote:
suicide ganking is an honourable profession, nerfing it will be CCP's undoing


If you really think that suicide gankers attacking industrial ships are "guided by a high sense of honor", you really must be a twisted mind there.

It's very far from honorable. It's not even legal (considering concord is both the law executor and judge), since you'r blown to bits just seconds after you gank someone... High sec ganking is a form of agression allowed by the game mechanic, that's all.

Don't mix terms. I know it is profitable, easy and by many considered fun... But so is kidnapping 7-year olds to sell them on the black market...

"Have you had your morning coffee?" -> the Coffee Lovers Brewing Club is recruiting! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=363976#post363976
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2011-11-22 15:12:51 UTC
Dr Karsun wrote:
Andski wrote:
suicide ganking is an honourable profession, nerfing it will be CCP's undoing


If you really think that suicide gankers attacking industrial ships are "guided by a high sense of honor", you really must be a twisted mind there.

It's very far from honorable. It's not even legal (considering concord is both the law executor and judge), since you'r blown to bits just seconds after you gank someone... High sec ganking is a form of agression allowed by the game mechanic, that's all.

Don't mix terms. I know it is profitable, easy and by many considered fun... But so is kidnapping 7-year olds to sell them on the black market...


please continue to compare blowing up people's pixel ships to real-life human trafficking, it's ~hilarious~ and we crosspost gold like that to goonfleet dot com

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Tear Miner
Doomheim
#23 - 2011-11-22 15:13:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Tear Miner
Roosterton wrote:
Overinflated pvp knowledge


I heard you fly drakes.

Get.

Out.
Dr Karsun
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
#24 - 2011-11-22 15:15:37 UTC
Andski wrote:
Dr Karsun wrote:
Andski wrote:
suicide ganking is an honourable profession, nerfing it will be CCP's undoing


If you really think that suicide gankers attacking industrial ships are "guided by a high sense of honor", you really must be a twisted mind there.

It's very far from honorable. It's not even legal (considering concord is both the law executor and judge), since you'r blown to bits just seconds after you gank someone... High sec ganking is a form of agression allowed by the game mechanic, that's all.

Don't mix terms. I know it is profitable, easy and by many considered fun... But so is kidnapping 7-year olds to sell them on the black market...


please continue to compare blowing up people's pixel ships to real-life human trafficking, it's ~hilarious~ and we crosspost gold like that to goonfleet dot com


I'd advise you to learn to read properly. I've compared the phrases describing the activity to be similar. That doest not mean I've compared the two activities them selves.

And by all means quote me! But I'd like to have the quote marked with my name, I don't like people empty quoting.

"Have you had your morning coffee?" -> the Coffee Lovers Brewing Club is recruiting! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=363976#post363976
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2011-11-22 15:16:50 UTC
The part I have never understood is why people think cost should be a balancing factor.

Question

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Russell Casey
Doomheim
#26 - 2011-11-22 15:17:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Russell Casey
Andski wrote:
when you mine high-sec gallente ice, you mine with HITLER


He's still mad about the speed nerf.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxqrFEjDswE
Crias Taylor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2011-11-22 15:17:44 UTC
Are we using terrible high sec pubbie math where if, "I mine it, it is free." Market value I get like 75m with fittings.

Also, don't forget that insurance isn't paid out anymore if you suicide gank.
BBJ Shepard
#28 - 2011-11-22 15:17:47 UTC
Suddenly Boom wrote:
Wow, this is going to be fun, for me at least, not for the people getting destroyed. I can now effectively destroy any hulk or mackinkaw in empire space with one button, and it will only cost me about 30 million isk and the target loses 100-150 million isk. Even if they tank their barge to hell, it won't matter because a 2nd volley will finish them for sure and a 2nd volley is possible.

We can even gank targets on gates like freighters, indys, even faction fit ships. I don't know what someone was thinking when they decided to add 8 slot battleship weapons to cheap ships but GJ.

Hi-sec ganking is going to be easier than ever, even without insurance. Let the massacre begin.


Please stop pretending to yourself you aren't a butthurt highsec miner, thanks!

?(:
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#29 - 2011-11-22 15:17:52 UTC
no meight, you made a comparison

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#30 - 2011-11-22 15:18:40 UTC
Serial Chi wrote:
infact, i hope there is. ccp has only been asking miners to bend over and take it for ages now. look at that ****** new T2 mining foreman link, seriously 5% increase when ALL others get 18-25% increase????
Uh-huh…

Harvester Capacitor Efficiency II: -2.5% (from -2% in the T1) — 25% larger bonus.
Laser Optimisation II: -2.5% (from -2% in the T1) — 25% larger bonus.
Mining Laser Field Enhancement: -5% (from -4.5% in the T1) — 11% larger bonus.

…according to the latest dump. Roll

That said, you do understand that this will mean miners make less money on average, right?
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2011-11-22 15:19:01 UTC
Serial Chi wrote:
i wonder if there is gonna be a mass exodus of hulk pilots if they are losing hulks every other day as opposed to once every few months.

infact, i hope there is. ccp has only been asking miners to bend over and take it for ages now. look at that ****** new T2 mining foreman link, seriously 5% increase when ALL others get 18-25% increase????

ccp, like all companies only understands one thing: money aka the bottom line.

i think ccp fells to understand that most gankers dont care about isk, just causing grief to another player and this is making their pants wet. loss of insurance just means an hour more of lvl 4 missions on their alt, in the background.

i hope hulkageddon V and these new BCs starts a nasty chain reaction and forces ccp to either bring the exhumars inline with the new gank mobiles or lose a **** load of money when the more passive, non forum-using average miners start to let there subs go.


Covetors.
2/3 the yield of an Hulk.
1/10 of the price.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#32 - 2011-11-22 15:20:30 UTC
Dr Karsun wrote:

Don't mix terms. I know it is profitable, easy and by many considered fun... But so is kidnapping 7-year olds to sell them on the black market...


Those adjectives could also equally apply to mining.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Dr Karsun
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
#33 - 2011-11-22 15:22:16 UTC
BBJ Shepard wrote:
Suddenly Boom wrote:
Wow, this is going to be fun, for me at least, not for the people getting destroyed. I can now effectively destroy any hulk or mackinkaw in empire space with one button, and it will only cost me about 30 million isk and the target loses 100-150 million isk. Even if they tank their barge to hell, it won't matter because a 2nd volley will finish them for sure and a 2nd volley is possible.

We can even gank targets on gates like freighters, indys, even faction fit ships. I don't know what someone was thinking when they decided to add 8 slot battleship weapons to cheap ships but GJ.

Hi-sec ganking is going to be easier than ever, even without insurance. Let the massacre begin.


Please stop pretending to yourself you aren't a butthurt highsec miner, thanks!


Actually he seems to be one of those suicide ganking cowards: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Suddenly+Boom

"Have you had your morning coffee?" -> the Coffee Lovers Brewing Club is recruiting! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=363976#post363976
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2011-11-22 15:22:36 UTC
Tear Miner wrote:
Roosterton wrote:
Overinflated pvp knowledge


I heard you fly drakes.

Get.

Out.


They're awesome for killing ratters in Stain with that kinetic damage bonus. Twisted
Dr Karsun
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
#35 - 2011-11-22 15:23:24 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Dr Karsun wrote:

Don't mix terms. I know it is profitable, easy and by many considered fun... But so is kidnapping 7-year olds to sell them on the black market...


Those adjectives could also equally apply to mining.


But if I described mining with those adjectives, my fingers would break :(

"Have you had your morning coffee?" -> the Coffee Lovers Brewing Club is recruiting! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=363976#post363976
bornaa
GRiD.
#36 - 2011-11-22 15:28:26 UTC  |  Edited by: bornaa
Tippia wrote:
Serial Chi wrote:
infact, i hope there is. ccp has only been asking miners to bend over and take it for ages now. look at that ****** new T2 mining foreman link, seriously 5% increase when ALL others get 18-25% increase????
Uh-huh…

Harvester Capacitor Efficiency II: -2.5% (from -2% in the T1) — 25% larger bonus.
Laser Optimisation II: -2.5% (from -2% in the T1) — 25% larger bonus.
Mining Laser Field Enhancement: -5% (from -4.5% in the T1) — 11% larger bonus.

…according to the latest dump. Roll

That said, you do understand that this will mean miners make less money on average, right?



Here is math in 3 decimals which corresponds to the actual in game values:

Maximum Skills, Orca
Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization (2%)
T1 Mining Foreman Link - Mining Laser Field Enhancement (4.5%)
T2 Mining Foreman Link - Mining Laser Field Enhancement (5%)


with T1 gang links:

Range Link Bonus = 0.045 * 5 * (1 + 5 * 0.10) * (1 + 5 * 0.03) * (1 + 0.50) = 0.5821875

Maximum Laser Range = 15 km * (1 + 0.5821875) = 23.732 km



with T2 gang links:

Range Link Bonus = 0.05 * 5 * (1 + 5 * 0.10) * (1 + 5 * 0.03) * (1 + 0.50) = 0.646875

Maximum Laser Range = 15 km * (1 + 0.646875) = 24.703 km

______________________________________________________________________

IdeaIdeaIdeaThat's 4% increase...IdeaIdeaIdea
or less then 1km...


Do a little math, and then write...
[Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
DangerosoDavo
Boob Heads
#37 - 2011-11-22 15:29:54 UTC
BBJ Shepard wrote:
Suddenly Boom wrote:
Wow, this is going to be fun, for me at least, not for the people getting destroyed. I can now effectively destroy any hulk or mackinkaw in empire space with one button, and it will only cost me about 30 million isk and the target loses 100-150 million isk. Even if they tank their barge to hell, it won't matter because a 2nd volley will finish them for sure and a 2nd volley is possible.

We can even gank targets on gates like freighters, indys, even faction fit ships. I don't know what someone was thinking when they decided to add 8 slot battleship weapons to cheap ships but GJ.

Hi-sec ganking is going to be easier than ever, even without insurance. Let the massacre begin.


Please stop pretending to yourself you aren't a butthurt highsec miner, thanks!


Who are you! And what have you done with BBJ SHEPARD. You enmadden me with your good english.

Side Note: Another gank thread? really? Cry Moar.
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2011-11-22 15:37:35 UTC
your doing it wrong if u need a tier 3 bc to gank a hulk..... check out the destroyer buff on sisi

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#39 - 2011-11-22 15:51:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
bornaa wrote:
That's 4% increase...
…to the final attribute, not to the increase, and you'll see the exact same result for other effects that are being added through gang mods. Since he compared it to the 18-25% increases to the bonuses of other mods, he's not talking about the final attribute.

The fact remains:
· T1 → 58.2% bonus.
· T2 → 64.7% bonus.
That's an 11% increase of the bonus.

Want to compare with the 4% effect increase you get from that link (and I love how you picked the worst one to try to prove how wicked they are to you…)? Ok…

All-V Vulture w/ 2× Invuln Field II
· T1 Shield Harmonizing link: 17.25% bonus
· T2 Shield Harmonizing link: 21.56% bonus.
That's a 25% increase of the bonus, which is higher than the 11% from the laser range link, but that's only fair since the bonus itself is so much smaller than the one you get from the mining link, not to mentioned that this bonus is then stacking penalised.

Thus, effectively applied to the Vulture itself:
· w/ T1 link: Kinetic resist = 89.5%
· w/ T2 link: Kinetic resist = 89.8%

That's a 0.33% increase in the effect. So you should be pretty ******* happy with your immense 4% increase on the final effect. Your 4% increase is more than 10× larger than what you get from the harmonizing link. Yeah, poor you. Boohoo. Cry me a ******* river. (Oh, and just to head off that one: EHP goes from 93,500 with T1 to a positively giddy 95,717 with the T2… better, but still only 2.4% which is a hellalot lower than the sizeable advantage you get from going from T1 to T2 mining range links).
Quote:
Do a little math.
Yes, please do, and this time, do it on a comparable set of numbers rather than comparing apples and copper plating.

Learn comparative methods, then write… Roll
BBJ Shepard
#40 - 2011-11-22 15:58:25 UTC  |  Edited by: BBJ Shepard
DangerosoDavo wrote:
BBJ Shepard wrote:
Suddenly Boom wrote:
Wow, this is going to be fun, for me at least, not for the people getting destroyed. I can now effectively destroy any hulk or mackinkaw in empire space with one button, and it will only cost me about 30 million isk and the target loses 100-150 million isk. Even if they tank their barge to hell, it won't matter because a 2nd volley will finish them for sure and a 2nd volley is possible.

We can even gank targets on gates like freighters, indys, even faction fit ships. I don't know what someone was thinking when they decided to add 8 slot battleship weapons to cheap ships but GJ.

Hi-sec ganking is going to be easier than ever, even without insurance. Let the massacre begin.


Please stop pretending to yourself you aren't a butthurt highsec miner, thanks!


Who are you! And what have you done with BBJ SHEPARD. You enmadden me with your good english.

Side Note: Another gank thread? really? Cry Moar.


CC\P naviater "MOST USEE TRAANSLATOR OR BANE O FORUEMS" !!!!!!!!!! so sister posst for my in enilsh at ones

As like this! Let us become once more on topic Cool


Tippia wrote:
…to the final attribute, not to the increase, and you'll see the exact same result for other effects that are being added through gang mods. Since he compared it to the 18-25% increases to the bonuses of other mods, he's not talking about the final attribute.

The fact remains:
· T1 → 58.2% bonus.
· T2 → 64.7% bonus.
That's an 11% increase of the bonus.

Want to compare with the 4% effect increase you get from that link (and I love how you picked the worst one to try to prove how wicked they are to you…)? Ok…

All-V Vulture w/ 2× Invuln Field II
· T1 Shield Harmonizing link: 17.25% bonus
· T2 Shield Harmonizing link: 21.56% bonus.
That's a 25% increase of the bonus, which is higher than the 11% from the laser range link, but that's only fair since the bonus itself is so much smaller than the one you get from the mining link, not to mentioned that this bonus is then stacking penalised.

Thus, effectively applied to the Vulture itself:
· w/ T1 link: Kinetic resist = 89.5%
· w/ T2 link: Kinetic resist = 89.8%

That's a 0.33% increase in the effect. So you should be pretty ******* happy with your immense 4% increase on the final effect. Your 4% increase is more than 10× larger than what you get from the harmonizing link. Yeah, poor you. Boohoo. Cry me a ******* river. (Oh, and just to head off that one: EHP goes from 93,500 with T1 to a positively giddy 95,717 with the T2… better, but still only 2.4% which is a hellalot lower than the sizeable advantage you get from going from T1 to T2 mining range links).
Quote:
Do a little math.
Yes, please do, and this time, do it on a comparable set of numbers rather than comparing apples and copper plating.

Learn comparative methods, then write… Roll


hoh ?

?(:
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