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Micro Transactions & CCP

Author
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#41 - 2013-12-15 04:38:07 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Anyone who plays EVE can make ships, ammo, rigs, and modules in EVE.

Only people who pay real money can create PLEX.
PLEX serve no in-game function — only an out-of-game one that is inherently tied to payment: the continuation of a subscription.


If PLEX serves no in game function, then why is it so expensive?

Why do people all get full of glee when they see a shuttle destroyed with 50 plex in it?

Obviously it has some function to the EVE economy..

Or are people paying 600 million for a non-functioning item?

The simple act of playing the game is indeed a very important part of the game itself.

If you cannot play, then all the in-game functions are useless.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#42 - 2013-12-15 04:42:51 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
If PLEX serves no in game function, then why is it so expensive?
Because its out-of-game function: it represents 1 month of game-time.

Quote:
Why do people all get full of glee when they see a shuttle destroyed with 50 plex in it?
Because stupidity is always fun.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#43 - 2013-12-15 04:49:01 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
If PLEX serves no in game function, then why is it so expensive?
Because its out-of-game function: it represents 1 month of game-time.

Quote:
Why do people all get full of glee when they see a shuttle destroyed with 50 plex in it?
Because stupidity is always fun.


So let's say for a moment that I agree that it is an out of game function...

That still means its a valuable item in EVE.

Because there is no other item in EVE that does that out of game function.

I know of no item you can manufacture that gives you free game time. You have to trade items or isk to someone who has used real money to create that item.

You cannot say with a straight face without being a troll that in game 30 day pilot license PLEX's are not valuable in game.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#44 - 2013-12-15 04:53:06 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
So let's say for a moment that I agree that it is an out of game function...

That still means its a valuable item in EVE.
So?

Quote:
You cannot say with a straight face without being a troll that in game 30 day pilot license PLEX's are not valuable in game.
…and as luck would have it, no-one has made such a claim.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#45 - 2013-12-15 05:06:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Tippia wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
So let's say for a moment that I agree that it is an out of game function...

That still means its a valuable item in EVE.
So?

Quote:
You cannot say with a straight face without being a troll that in game 30 day pilot license PLEX's are not valuable in game.
…and as luck would have it, no-one has made such a claim.


Then why is it important that PLEX has no in game function then? Its still valuable. You implied that it wasn't by dismissing the importance of its creation by money.

If you are not saying that it is not valuable (double negative) then you must agree with me and that people use real money to create an item of value in the EVE universe.

And that these people who use real money have monopoly of its creation and therefore have an advantage over people who trade them isk for the plex because all players can create isk. Only players who pay real money can create PLEX.

If you agree that PLEX is valuable you must also agree that only people who pay real money can create the PLEX.

There is no denying this fact.

So you must agree with me or deny actual facts.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#46 - 2013-12-15 05:18:52 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Then why is it important that PLEX has no in game function then?
Because it makes it distinctly different and completely unrelated to ships, ammo, rigs, and modules, and as such, having a “monopoly” on it is meaningless.

Quote:
You implied that it wasn't by dismissing the importance of its creation by money.
No and no, in roughly that order. You're imagining things.

Quote:
If you agree that PLEX is valuable you must also agree that only people who play real money can create the PLEX.
Non sequitur, so no, I don't particularly have to. More to the point, it doesn't matter because as you point out, the supposed advantage is available whether you pay or not.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#47 - 2013-12-15 05:32:15 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Non sequitur, so no, I don't particularly have to. More to the point, it doesn't matter because as you point out, the supposed advantage is available whether you pay or not.


So you are not going to agree with me at all?

Does that mean you do not believe that PLEX is valuable in the EVE game and that only people who pay real money can create PLEX?

I mean you either agree or don't.

If you don't agree then you don't agree with real fats.

I think you painted into a corner and improperly used "non sequitur" to try to get out of it.

At this point you are just saying anything because you can't stand to agree with me.

So tell me... If you can...

Is PLEX valuable?

Can only people who pay real money create plex?

I doubt you can bring yourself to answer these two questions.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server

GreenSeed
#48 - 2013-12-15 05:46:20 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Non sequitur, so no, I don't particularly have to. More to the point, it doesn't matter because as you point out, the supposed advantage is available whether you pay or not.


So you are not going to agree with me at all?

Does that mean you do not believe that PLEX is valuable in the EVE game and that only people who pay real money can create PLEX?

I mean you either agree or don't.

If you don't agree then you don't agree with real fats.

I think you painted into a corner and improperly used "non sequitur" to try to get out of it.

At this point you are just saying anything because you can't stand to agree with me.

So tell me... If you can...

Is PLEX valuable?

Can only people who pay real money create plex?

I doubt you can bring yourself to answer these two questions.



the value of the item has no bearing on its effect ingame, plex could be worth 100bill, but its still useless in game.

the fact is, plex CANNOT be traded for in game "things" that don't comply with this two rules: first, the "thing" must be the result of the eve production chain. and second, the "thing" must not have a bearing on ingame combat or market visibility.

you cant trade plex for golden ammo, you cant trade plex or aur for a NPC produced ship, module or service that can increase combat proficiency or market visibility.

this game has cosmetic microtransactions, and plex. plex is not a microtransaction, AUR is, but the only items for sale in exchange of AUR have no bearing in combat or market visibility, even when they are not player produced.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#49 - 2013-12-15 05:57:45 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Non sequitur, so no, I don't particularly have to. More to the point, it doesn't matter because as you point out, the supposed advantage is available whether you pay or not.


So you are not going to agree with me at all?

Does that mean you do not believe that PLEX is valuable in the EVE game and that only people who pay real money can create PLEX?

I mean you either agree or don't.

If you don't agree then you don't agree with real fats.

I think you painted into a corner and improperly used "non sequitur" to try to get out of it.

At this point you are just saying anything because you can't stand to agree with me.

So tell me... If you can...

Is PLEX valuable?

Can only people who pay real money create plex?

I doubt you can bring yourself to answer these two questions.



the value of the item has no bearing on its effect ingame, plex could be worth 100bill, but its still useless in game.

the fact is, plex CANNOT be traded for in game "things" that don't comply with this two rules: first, the "thing" must be the result of the eve production chain. and second, the "thing" must not have a bearing on ingame combat or market visibility.

you cant trade plex for golden ammo, you cant trade plex or aur for a NPC produced ship, module or service that can increase combat proficiency or market visibility.

this game has cosmetic microtransactions, and plex. plex is not a microtransaction, AUR is, but the only items for sale in exchange of AUR have no bearing in combat or market visibility, even when they are not player produced.


You haven't read my entire line of thinking...

Anyone can create modules, ships, and ammo in EVE. Do you agree?

Only people who spend money can create PLEX. Do you agree?

Hence the advantage.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#50 - 2013-12-15 06:01:12 UTC
Tippia wrote:
PLEX serve no in-game function


I have to disagree with this. They provide us with endless in game contentBlink
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2013-12-15 06:12:25 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
You haven't read my entire line of thinking...

Anyone can create modules, ships, and ammo in EVE. Do you agree?

Only people who spend money can create PLEX. Do you agree?

Hence the advantage.

"Anyone can create titans, only people who spend money can buy a monocle. Hence the advantage."

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Bel Amar
Rules of Acquisition
#52 - 2013-12-15 06:58:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Bel Amar
Captain Tardbar wrote:
So basically people with lots of money pay other people minimum wage to do all the hard work while they sit back and sip champagne on their yachts.

Kind of like real life.


Pretty much

Quote:
I am just saying its silly to say that people who spend cash on the game have no advantage over people that don't.


So, you're refuting a claim I never made? If you have a closer look at my post, i said that it is /technically/ p2w, and I also said that you as an individual can come out ahead.

My point wasn't that an individual can't benefit, rather just that the EVE system redistributes in game assets for real world cash, instead of spawning it out of nothing, so the game as a whole is no worse off.

I'm not sure how you took "people who spend cash get no advantage" from that...
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#53 - 2013-12-15 11:18:42 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Anyone can create modules, ships, and ammo in EVE. Do you agree?

Only people who spend money can create PLEX. Do you agree?

Hence the advantage.
The only in-game use of PLEX is to acquire ISK. All players can acquire ISK. No advantage.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#54 - 2013-12-15 12:18:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Captain Tardbar wrote:
So you are not going to agree with me at all?
I'm not going to agree with your non sequitur, no, because… well… it's a non sequitur so it would be rather silly of me to do so. At that point, your supporting evidence doesn't matter because the conclusion you draw from it is incorrect no matter what.

Quote:
I mean you either agree or don't.
…or I reject your entire premise, as well as your false dilemma.

Quote:
You haven't read my entire line of thinking...

Anyone can create modules, ships, and ammo in EVE. Do you agree?

Only people who spend money can create PLEX. Do you agree?

Hence the advantage.
…except that PLEX has no in-game function and therefore offers no advantage. It's just game time — time everyone has (because otherwise they wouldn't be in the game). So it is pretty much completely unlike things like modules, ships, and ammo.

If anything, the buyers are at an advantage since they can obviously create that kind of ISK without having to go sell game time to other players to do so, whereas the seller cannot for various reasons. If you want to say that the buying party has a monopoly on PLEX, then the buying party has a far greater monopoly: on ISK. Your come-back will be “anyone can make ISK”, but guess what, under comparable circumstances, anyone can make PLEX too. So if you are really going to go with the monopoly angle, then there are two of them — one on PLEX and one on ISK and both give the same advantage. So in the end, there is no actual advantage since everything cancels itself out.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2013-12-15 12:28:41 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Anyone can create modules, ships, and ammo in EVE. Do you agree?

Only people who spend money can create PLEX. Do you agree?

Hence the advantage.
The only in-game use of PLEX is to acquire ISK. All players can acquire ISK. No advantage.

That's not technically true. You can use PLEX to train with more than one character per account. But that doesn't really count since that's equivalent to activating another account for 30 days (except that you can use the character after the time has expired).

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

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